How many GCSEs do kids take these days?

[backinthebox]

DS will choose his options next week, and we have only just been sent information home on this. DD chose her’s 4 years ago (same school) and did 11 GCSEs, but DS has been told pupils only do 8 now. This is obviously fewer than he was expecting to be able to choose, and he is worried about how this will affect his future prospects. Am I right in thinking that 8 GCSEs for a top set pupil is a rather low number?

Yes, they're two different circumstances @ClementinePancakes - but just pointing out that eight GCSEs can be good and can be bad - rather than a 'more is always better' or 'less is better'. It's about why, and how.

Also about whether the student actually has a choice, which in OPs case they haven't. Which is really rubbish - but that doesn't lead to 'all children doing 8 gcses have a terribly narrow curriculum'

@Hughs yes, of course- as @Comefromaway says it's about the standard being the same but the amount of time needed being less. I think they're about equivalent with an EPQ when at distinction level, and I can't imagine any uni taking grade 8 in more than one instrument as part of a tariff - though I can see why they might also take the theory, especially in lieu of A-Level music.

Is it a bad thing to have several languages? If a student has an aptitude for MFL why not pursue these? No-one is criticised for doing triple languages, what's wrong with triple MFL? I would suggest UK needs more people who learn languages, not fewer.

Boasting rights?
For whom?

It's an A*! Well done him!

Or if a pupil excels in the Arts or Humanities, same deal. Personally, I think GCSEs are outmoded, defunct and not fit for purpose. It really doesn't matter if you're Mumsnet superstar 'DC' get a minimum of an 8 in 10+ subjects. Or if your 16yr old does really badly. It is supposed to be a general certificate of secondary education. I hate the idea that children are treated pajoritively on the basis of not ticking a societal box at that age. In the bigger picture, it doesn't really matter. My little man is slap bang in the middle of mocks and it is stressful. But, ultimately, it really doesn't matter. He doesn't want to fail. His teachers are supportive. I love him. He's not a emotional support gonk for me to wave around on the internet as some sort of vicarious self-agrandasising self-fulfillment puppet. He's a person. A really decent one. I paid off my own student loan in the exact same year my eldest started accruing his. There other pathways. There are other mindsets. There are other ways to make a living and be happy. One size doesn't fit all. And GCSEs really don't matter. Except to people responsible for implementing an archaic regime. Like some teachers or some parents. I am being deliberately vexatious and don't want to offend anyone. It's just - being in the Yr11 melee, all these 'only and 8 or 9 will do' comments are as ridiculous as they are unrealistic. They're children. I'm hugely uncomfortable with sifting children into little piles of certified ability when they can't even get a job. There endeth the rambling. Apologies again. It is wholly subjective because he's a very warm, kind and capable little person. If he got all Us and 3s, he will still be all he is and really valuable and worthwhile.

I'm a linguist. I'm very much in favour of language learning. I question the point of a 15 year old child having 5 language GCSEs. Or 13 GCSEs in total. I'm all for a good work life balance.

@backinthebox this has been an interesting discussion but you maybe still need some ideas of what your DS should do. The issue is that many schools I know which offer eight GCSEs either don't offer triple at all or offer it to a chosen cohort as an etra - so they actually take nine. Bc your DS's school is offering it as an option (which in itself is not a bad idea, but better as part of a choice of 9/10 GCSEs) this brings the issue.

I think he and you have three options:

1. Forget the humanity and take CS
2. Forget the CS (and carefully check with his intended post-16 setting that he can still do A level CS without the GCSE) and take the humanity
3. (tricky one) talk to school about not taking MFL and instead taking history and CS. After all, he won't count towards their ebacc figure since he is not taking history.

Ideally I reckon option 3). Failing that (but I think it's worth asking) I would personally go with option 2). The CS GCSE acc DS2 anyway is pretty dull and it is genuinely possible to code in your spare time and cover all you need. But a love of history and the skills of analysis and understanding are very valuable to all. HTH.

@DroningLovisa I want to say a big well done to your DS for doing all those languages - yay! It's amazing to hear of someone doing more than one MFL (and then often moaning about that one). You should know tho (and I am sure you do) that he took on a lot and what he achieved is very unusual and pretty much impossible in most state comprehensives IM[limited obvs]E. Even if one of the MFLs was a home language, to take two others and Latin, and Greek is not really representative of most 16yos. Well done to him tho for the effort he put in.

(PS is he me? I have [O levels, old person] three MFLs plus Latin and Greek. I did take the Greek as an extra tho and the Spanish as an extra in sixth form. So that was a bit excessive even for my grammar school back in the day.)

@BornSandyDevotional no one on here is saying "only 8 or 9 will do"

If that is what you and your son are hearing from his peers and their parents then I am sorry for you both bc as you say, it is not true. I hope you continue to support hi through year 11 which is a trying time. But GCSEs are important – in that they open the door to the next stage. It's not the end of the world if you don't do well, but everyone hopes to do as well as they can.

@clary why would the PP need to have 'some ideas of what your DS should do'? They're a young adult at 16 and should have agency. At which point do we let children learn, develop and grow independently? Should we get them through pointless GCSE exams and A levels (all at 9 and A) then push the grifting little sods of a cliff? Children and young people are autonomous individuals. Not factory farmed little exam passing machines. Come the zombie apocalypse, no one will care that little Helena Sophia Athena got an A in Physics. If she can chop wood, plan cool stuff because she knows things about physics and can action stuff, that's going to be great. But no one is going to care what grade she got in a pointless exam at 16.

They really aren't important. Except to you. It seems. My child isn't going to 'fail'. Not even French! We won't ever agree on the importance of GCSE examinations, I'm sure. I'd just rather place my confidence in a person's character - ongoing - than their ability to answer a few questions on a 2hr exam paper as a child. Have a good evening.

The OP's DS is actually in year 9 so he is 13 or 14. I don't suppose they really need my help but I was trying to suggest the ways they might go – as he is in a quandary about which options to pick, because the limited number means he cannot choose what he wants.

No one is saying some of the things you seem to think they are saying. My experience as teacher and parent has shown me that GCSEs are important and I am pretty sure I am not the only person who thinks so. I reckon the OP does tbh or she wouldn't be concerned about this. I've not mentioned failing GCSEs at all btw.

Hopefully we will all avoid the zombie apocalypse as well. I’m certainly planning to. Not sure what I have done to upset you so much but if it is something I have said on here that has (unintentionally) done so then I apologise.

Thank you @clary . I know it was a lot, and kept under review his workload and wellbeing. I think it was doable because he has always worked hard and with great focus. So he didn't have masses of revision to cram in- he had it in his head well in advance. No heritage MFL, but he took French in Y10 to reduce the workload in Y11. Maths and Further Maths are one subject really. And I don't regard Latin and Greek as learning languages exactly, more like brain training. He is a boy who enjoys studying. He's taking three A levels, not including a MFL, but is studying German as an extracurricular, and entering external essay competitions for History because he is hungry and focused.

I think I may have irritated some posters by listing 13- that wasn't intentional. But the OP's question was about the range of GCSEs being undertaken, and whilst I know 13 is unusual, it isn't unprecedented or impossible. Being able to take more largely depends on factors like subject groupings, the length of time any subject has been studied before Y10, and the working habits of adolescent children. FWIW, my advice to my DC is that GCSEs are a gateway, not the destination. They need to be good enough to enable a young person to do the next thing they want to. They don't need to be stellar, but suffucient to get through to 6th form or equivalent and strong enough in their chosen areas. The journey is also important.

@BornSandyDevotional wow, you do sound angry.

No, GCSEs aren't pointless, especially English and maths. Without them your DC's opportunities are limited.

I agree with @clary that GCSEs are important because they do open more doors.

@clary he has decided he will ditch the humanity (he was undecided between Geography and History anyway) and take Latin as his language, as this is 75% study of language (admittedly not one which is spoken anywhere) and 25% study of Ancient Rome which is a topic he really enjoys. Then he can keep triple science and computer science. It’s all very unsatisfactory. He’s had parents evening this week, with teachers of several subjects expressing sorrow at seeing him not choose their subject as they believe he would do well.

@BornSandyDevotional your child is not my child, so you parent yours the way you want to, and I’ll parent mine the way I think suits him best. If it helps, to me he is not an exam passing little sod I am going to push off a cliff - he is currently doing his NCAS climbing qualifications in his spare time (at his own request) so he can climb up or down any cliff he likes. He also made himself a Zombie Apocalypse Task Force jacket during lockdown for fun (based on Lister’s jacket in Red Dwarf) and learnt which wood will make the best spears. So even if his exam grades don’t matter come the Zombie Apocalypse, he will be fine. My son, just like yours, is also a person and he has decided that he would like to take more than 8 subjects at GCSE because he has a particular career ambition that will be made easier if he has this. Why should I deny that to my son because you have got some weird ideas that I have made him my ‘emotional support gonk’ because exams don’t suit your son?

@backinthebox I didn't mean you at all! You sound like an absolutely brilliant mum to a lovely little man. I am very pleased he's well-equipped for the zombie apocalypse though. Good luck to both of you and we'll see you when the lights go out. At this point, I've realised how useless that grade 9 in Art really is. We are relying on you! 😂

@backinthebox good plan; Latin ticks the humanity/history box to at least some extent. I am sure your son will be fine and wish him the best of luck.

Latin and Greek are definitely languages - I know it's a few decades since my O levels but Latin was then at least!

@backinthebox Latin is an excellent choice. My Dd1 did it as her 'language' but it is also just brilliant for literature analysis and the history stuff - she now does A-Level history and I can see it would have fed well into other subjects too - the course she did was a lovely mix of humanity, literature and language, which is exactly how my Classics degree worked at uni too. Hope it's enjoyed!

My son is choosing his options and will do 10, possibly 11 if he gets to do Astronomy as a twilight course.

English Language
English Literature
Maths
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
History
MFL
Drama (they have to do this or PE, Music or Art)
Then he’s deciding between Computer Science, a second language or RE.

Well yes of course it is literally a language. But you don't learn it in order to speak it- it's more that having Latin turbocharges appreciation and understanding in other subjects. I'd say the same is true to some extent of Ancient Greek: it isn't in the same subject category as MFL. Just my opinion of course.

Haha yeah cannot now and never could say anything much in Latin or Greek. Of course Henry in The Secret History converses freely in Ancient Greek. But you would have to be talking about battles and chariots and wine-dark sea, rather than shall we go to the cinema tonight and my favourite food is pizza.

mine have done 12, but the majority do 10-11 at our school depends if taking the additional maths one or not. most do triple science.

My DC took 12 as there was no option not to due to taking triple science, further maths and the usual 10 GCSEs (state comprehensive).

One of the subjects was in a block where there was half the time for that subject, so you had to basically teach yourself the rest. Further Maths was in the normal Maths lessons and Triple Science had the same allocation of lessons as Double Science. I honestly don't think that the extra two GCSEs added anything more than stress, but there was no way to opt out.

DC's super-selective grammar school 6th form required the best 8 GCSE results including English Language, Maths and any required subjects for A'levels. The average number of GCSE taken there was 10. So, 8 GCSEs would be fine for most likely all options post-GCSE.