How many GCSEs do kids take these days?

[backinthebox]

DS will choose his options next week, and we have only just been sent information home on this. DD chose her’s 4 years ago (same school) and did 11 GCSEs, but DS has been told pupils only do 8 now. This is obviously fewer than he was expecting to be able to choose, and he is worried about how this will affect his future prospects. Am I right in thinking that 8 GCSEs for a top set pupil is a rather low number?

Also, every comp round these parts offers GCSE Sociology. Has done for years.

Interesting. I only know one round here that does.

Huh? My unhappiness? The thread is about GCSEs and choices and numbers taken. I was jyst saying, from your post, you had misunderstood me wrt doing history A level without the GCSE, which is certainly possible, and is relevant bc some DC will have to limit their GCSEs and perhaps omit some subjects they would like to study.
Not sure what you think I am unhappy about?

And I also don’t know any state comp that offers sociology GCSE. I’m sure some do, but none in my city.

Different areas, I guess. GCSE Sociology was my DC1's favourite. All schools offer it here. Our local comp didn't offer Sociology A level in a way that fitted in with his other choices. He went for Psychology instead. Got an A*. He was subject to the COVID results debacle and the university in lockdown thing. But he's a lovely human and doing fine. I don't like the idea that only people with 8s and 9s are credible or successful. That's silly. Difference is what makes us human. I just want to feel that my Yr11 son isn't made to feel useless by a redundant and silly system currently. If he got a 3 in everything (a U in maths!), he's still my baby. That would be highly unlikely and catastrophic. But I like to think I wouldn't start getting all histrionic about it. Especially on Mumsnet. Genuinely, chill out.

I'm not sure why you're telling me to chill out?

I haven't exactly seen anyone get worked up on this thread.

Apologies. Wrong terminology. Just felt defensive over the Hums thing. And sociology. Unnecessarily. Sorry and have a good evening 😊

DS took 13 this past summer.
Maths, Further Maths, triple science
Latin, Greek, 3 x MFL, English Lang & Lit,
History.
It was a lot and we kept under review with his school whether he was compromising wellbeing and grades for quantity- but he made up his mind to do the full set and was highly organised and self-disciplined.
We live rurally and made sure he had down time outside, fishing and playing cricket to break up the studying. He pulled it off pretty well and in retrospect I think it was positive life lesson about ambition, hard work, organisation and reward.

If I could wave a magic wand I would do away with the grading system. I get the 9-1 was designed to have more ‘passing’ grades but I don’t think you need that much granulation at this age. I would have
Level 1 pass. Grades 1-3 (same as currently but rarely acknowledged)
Level 2 pass Grades 4-5 ish
Level 2 merit Grades 6-7 ish
Level 2 distinction Grades 8-9 ish

Much simpler and gives all the information you need to know. There are always the percentages available for schools to help with deciding on a level options. Eg you need a merit to get into a course but only a few %of the boundary the school could consider it.

Why 13?
Boasting rights?

It's hard to understand, isn't it? Nobody needs GCSEs in 5 languages.

I agree with you there @JamesWebbSpaceTelescope - my DC got a 8 in one subject where he expected a 9. He was down about it but for me it's still an A and who needs more than that?

Maybe one was a native language? Or even two.

As a general observation... it seems the children who did 10+ subjects were doing multiple subjects in one timetable slot. (Maths and Further maths/statistics, schools doing triple science for some and double for others in same lesson time, or an extra language).

I'm intrigued about how many hours of lesson time per week is normal per subject in schools. The average appears to be 3hrs at DDs school, with some being 2hrs.

DD's school in her year it was 5hrs fortnightly for options.
10 for double science, 14 for triple science.
English & Maths I can't remember, but more than 5.

The 4hrs 'spare' for those not doing triple science went either on IT and/or extra maths/English so it didn't cost an option slot to do triple, but also it wasn't in the same time as double.

I don’t think it’s a given that doing fewer GCSEs means you will get higher grades in those.

My Dc did 10 GCSEs and I don’t think dropping one or two which he had chosen would have meant 8 higher grades. It would just have meant one or two fewer qualifications - and his results for optional choices were slightly better than compulsory ones, overall.

Back in the early 90s, my best grades were also in subjects I had chosen - I did 11 GCSEs.
If I had been restricted to 8, I don’t think I would have worked harder at them. I genuinely think I would have been more bored and disengaged, and done worse in all of them.
Studying subjects I actually liked and had chosen was the only thing that gave me motivation at all.

Restricting choice, and then trying to make out is all for the restricted persons benefit can make people angry and demotivated.

If it’s for funding reasons, fine. it can’t be helped. But for every student that benefits from a narrower curriculum, there is one who would benefit from being stretched and following their interests, and they deserve to have their needs met too.

@MrsAvocet thank you for your post about your sons and their routes into engineering. My son would like to study engineering, and I do worry that the route he is being shoehorned into will restrict choices for him later. But possibly it won’t. It will still be better, imo, if he could keep his option into engineering possible but also continue to learn a humanity and a language.

The school he is at is limiting the number to 8 in order to create more time to study each subject and also to take part in more co-curricular activities. Although as yet it is very unclear as to what those co-curricular activities are and how they will benefit the pupil. The core subjects for his ‘options pathway’ are Eng lang and lit, maths, triple science, a language and one other option. He wishes to do computer science as he really enjoys it, but this means he will not cover a humanity. If he chooses a humanity, he will have to ditch computer science. He could take a humanity and a language, but would have to drop triple science and only study combined science, which I don’t believe would be the best avenue for him to take, for various reasons mentioned earlier on this thread. It does feel hugely restrictive not to have that one last subject, and what is frustrating is that this ‘last subject’ was available to all children at this school for the last who-knows-how-many years and the first we have heard that it has changed is last week. Had I known this was the way they were going to offer options, I would have chosen the other school (we are in catchment for two) who are currently offering 9-10.

DC school has 2.5 hours per subject per week. Double and triple science are all timetabled for 5 hours a week. Basically the same as what @TeenToTwenties quoted for her DC school.

I personally know at least three students who have taken history A level without the GCSE tho. It's topic based so what's the issue?

I don't think I said or implied there was an issue or that it was a good or bad idea, just that I was surprised to hear about A level geography and history without the GCSE because both of those would be a hard no ime.

@BornSandyDevotional you are agreeing with me, not @clary 🙂
But it doesn't matter, evidently some schools allow it and some don't. Hopefully any school restricting DC to 8 GCSEs would.

@ClementinePancakes 👏👏👏

Peter Symonds College (large well respected 6th form college in Winchester) does not require History / Geography GCSE to do the A level.
Neither does its main competition in Southampton, Barton Peveril.

Clary has already demonstrated that some places do this, but will bear in mind if ever considering taking A level history or geography in Hampshire 😂

8-12 here (bog-standard comp). Although those doing 12 are usually getting there with a heritage language (Polish, Chinese, Russian) that is not actively taught by the school but the school will organise the exams for.

It's only the bottom stream that would take 8, so I'm surprised that there are schools that would mandate that everyone takes 8 regardless of ability. That seems very limiting.

Again I'll reiterate it's surely only limiting if you aren't doing something else constructive and broadening with the time when you'd have been studying the extra subject .

Would it be OK if you were doing a BTEC and 8 gcses for example? Or sport and 8 GCSEs? Or ballet and 8 GCSEs? Or learning a language you have no intention of taking a GCSE in?

Years ago, I was forced to do an extra GCSE and not take shorthand and touch typing because I was 'clever' and touch typing was for secretaries. I'm a journalist - the touch typing would have been far more useful than my extra GCSE!

My DD who is doing 8 is using her timetabled spare periods to prepare for a couple of music grade 8 exams and an instrumental diploma. Technically the Grade 8s hold the same weight as an A-Level (obviously not for the universities she is interested in, but still) - given no uni looks at more than 8 GCSEs you could argue these will be more 'relevant'.

Also, this way she actually has some time for sport, in which she will get no qualification at all, but it is much better for her mental health. It's not really the extra bit of paper that says GCSE on it that is valuable at this point, surely, it's what you're actually learning.

DD didn't get spare periods at school until 6th form. They still had PE lessons though.

Of course being told you don’t have to do 9 GCSEs, instead you can do something else you enjoy isn’t limiting. If they like like ballet or sport or music or whatever, that’s great for the student, a brilliant and flexible offer.

It’s not the same as being told that you can’t study the subjects you actually enjoy and will have to drop some of them, - and then to add insult to injury replace them with something “broadening and constructive” that you don’t enjoy.

That’s not being flexible, that’s telling some students that the subjects they enjoy and are good at are of no value. And surely pretty much the same thing as happened to pp above who wasn’t allowed to study touch typing!

Technically the Grade 8s hold the same weight as an A-Level

Just btw, because although you may not be counting on these points others might, the very best you can do at Grade 8, a distinction, is worth 30 points, which is between a C and a D at A level. A merit is 27 and a pass is 24, the same as a D. I'm not sure you can really say they hold the same weight when you can score many more points in one than the other.

They are the same standard but are a smaller qualification. The Credit value of Grade 8 practical is 32 and of Grade 8 theory 21.

Some universities will accept Grade 8 practical AND Grade 8 theory in lieu of A level. Distinction at both would give you 40 UCAS points.