How many GCSEs do kids take these days?

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DS will choose his options next week, and we have only just been sent information home on this. DD chose her’s 4 years ago (same school) and did 11 GCSEs, but DS has been told pupils only do 8 now. This is obviously fewer than he was expecting to be able to choose, and he is worried about how this will affect his future prospects. Am I right in thinking that 8 GCSEs for a top set pupil is a rather low number?

Where I work, we don't actually specify GCSE subjects, or even state that it has to be 5 GCSEs. We used to specify English and Maths and (sometimes) Science but even that's gone now.

We expect applicants to have Level 3 quals when applying to uni. These can be A levels, BTECs, Access courses etc and these, of course, are all higher level than GCSEs. Our assumption is that, if an applicant has successfully acquired Level 3 quals at the appropriate level, then their Level 2 standard is fine!

In practice, the minimum we see is 5 or 6 - it's rare to see less than that for our very mathematical science subject.

My son did 9 last year, they dropped one not long before as apparently universities don’t require them and kids find it easier to do better but it does mean there is very little choice since there are so many mandatory subjects.

That's down to the school though. The only mandatory GCSE subjects are English Language, Maths and Stuff cience.

8 feels very low.

DD1 - took 11 in an academic private achool
DD2 - took 10 in a comprehensive school, would have been limited to 9 but she took triple science
DS1 - is taking 9 at same comprehensive as only recommended for double science. Chose to do Latin off his own bat out of school so will have 10 in the end.
DS2 - not that old yet but if his school said he could only take 8 I think I’d move him.

The majority take 8 or 9 according to the government stats. Only around 14% of pupils take 10 or more. You'll get a skewed answer on Mumsnet!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-gcse-results-2024/infographics-for-gcse-results-2024-accessible

It was 9 at the three different schools my kids attended including the selective independent school.

9 is normal.

If you DS can't do it at school would he consider studying the other one at home with support from you with tutors?

My kids grammar school do 10 normally but if they are decent at maths do FM too ( not technically a gcse but very similar)

Nine at ours as standard, although there is extra further maths and/or Latin as after school courses.

Four options and the only restriction is that one of them needs to be one of Triple Science/Computer Science/History/Geography/MFL.

Schools will require both English Language and English Literature as both must be sat for the school to get a Progress 8 figure for the student.

@SunsetGirl only English Language is compulsory, not English Lit. The highest grade of the two is used for progress 8.

But you need to sit both of them to get that doubled grade - weird but true.

What do you mean by "that doubled grade"?

You don't need eng lit for progress 8. You just need Eng Lang, maths, 3 ebacc and 3 open.

10 for DS (Yr11) including triple science and a language. The other two senior schools locally do combined science only. So 8 at both. My eldest also did 10 but definitely only needed 8 to progress so I wouldn't worry.

If you don't sit English Literature, the highest English grade is not double weighted. Eight GCSEs, but ten "numbers" which are worked with.

A perfect example from a government document, here:

Ours do 9 in total but they do compulsory MFL in year 9
so only do 8 in years 10-11

separate sciences is one of the options so if they do that they only have two other options which seems limiting.

I did mine in wales where I did 12 which I felt was ridiculous. Because you have to do welsh language and lit. No issue with welsh but welsh literature is a total waste of time (IMO it should have been a choice between English lit and welsh lit).
Shocked that some in wales now do 15! Thats literally almost double what mine will do.

If you are worried about university then actually only 5 meets the requirements - luckily for ds2 as that is all he took. The greater problem is that it is more difficult to keep your choices open the fewer GCSEs you are allowed to take. Not a problem if like ds2 you clearly have a mathematics / science strength but more of an issue for those allrounders who are still undecided at 14 what route to take.

DS will only do 9, annoyingly if they do triple science they have to drop an option. In my school triple science was an extra but thinking back we got the same number of lessons as the double award students, but DS's school will have extra timetable for science, so maybe not a bad thing.

So after triple science, a humanity and a language, he only gets 1 option.

My son is in y13 and went to a non selective state comp and took 10 gcses. Would have been 11 with triple which some took!!! 2x english maths 2x science humanity language and then 2 free options as well as compulsory RE.

It’s a mistake to think that more subjects, beyond about 8 or 9, make someone look cleverer.

Lots of parents mistakenly take the view that doing more must be more impressive.

What really matters is your APS - average point score. So, having fewer with better grades is important. If taking 8 will get you all 7-9, that’s better than doing 10 with a number of 5s and 6s in there too.

Some students with particular circumstances might do especially low numbers. But for most in normal curcumstances, 8 or 9 is good. Ensuring a decent range, to include a humanity and ideally a language too (if a child can do it and perform well in it) is a good idea. Breadth is important at GCSE. If you’re talking about 10 or more, it’s really only useful for the very able who might be doing Further Maths GCSE or some kind of twilight language course. It’s only worth it if it won’t affect their performance in other subjects. For the reasonably bright, it would be better to do 8 or 9. Much better to do that and get 8/9 in Maths for example, than to stretch themselves too thin and get a 6/7 in maths.

Parents often equate more subjects with more impressive. This is a problem for schools and difficult to explain to parents…why more isn’t usually better.

@WombatChocolate I'd be delighted if mine got a 6/7 in maths. That's a high B/A and a cracking grade. My eldest did surprisingly well in French but - for mine - MFL feels like a waste of time. GCSE is all about getting through to the next round. A 4 in maths is more than enough to do that depending on which course of study people want to take. For the OP, science and maths results are highly relevant (engineering). For other career paths, the grades are irrelevant above a pass.

Fair enough. Again, a child who is borderline for a pass at GCSE or for whom a 5 would be a good achievement and open doors to the next phase (the majority of kids) will be more likely to achieve their best outcomes by doing slightly fewer rather than more subjects. They are more likely to get their 4 or 5 if they do perhaps 8 subjects, rather than stretch themselves too thin. And yes, I agree that languages (in their current form at GCSE) are not necessarily a good choice for those who are hoping to get 4/5/6.

I wouldn’t fully agree that the grades are irrelevant beyond getting a pass. I agree that the most important thing is to meet the threshold to move onto the next stage….passing English and Maths and meeting the specific criteria for the course they want to do next. But actually, lots of 6th form colleges will prioritise people for certain courses who have got the higher grades and are more likely to succeed at them. Often courses are over-subscribed and a college might guarantee a place, but not on the course a student might want. Equally, at the next phase, the grades achieved at GCSE will be noticed. People know a 4 is a scrape pass and a 6 is better. For uni, lots of courses don’t require an A Level in Maths, but many specify a 6 or 7 at GCSE as a minimum. It would be better to have done a couple of fewer GCSEs and got that 6/7 rather than a 4/5.

Of course not everyone will be a higher achiever. But pretty much all students will do better in their core subjects, if they do slightly fewer GCSEs.

This. A thousand times this. When I was in education it was science that was looked down on, with English students ruling the roost. This was, of course, absurd and unhealthy. Now there seeks to have been a complete reversal and the new situation is, of course, absurd and unhealthy.

There seems to be a trend at GCSE to reduce numbers. I don’t like it. 14 feels too soon to be cutting out the majority of subjects.

@WombatChocolate definitely agree that less GCSEs are often better. Eldest graduated last summer with a very good degree from a very good university despite his 4 in maths and A*, A and B at A level. Has been working in a decent starter job since. High achieving means different things to different people, it seems. Youngest has a very clear and defined specialism. In his preferred areas, he'll clean-up at GCSE, I'm sure. Maths and Science will be in that 4/5/6 area.But -as with a lot of people - in his discipline his grades are secondary to his ability to shine in practice. By their very nature, GCSEs are a general qualification. Thankfully, they're not very important in the long-term and aren't any substitute for ability, application and aptitude in professional life. Happily, it's not the end of the world for those who don't get the grades they expect either. I hate the idea that there are poor 16yr olds out there who really think their results at GCSE are the best all and end all!

There seems to be a trend at GCSE to reduce numbers. I don’t like it. 14 feels too soon to be cutting out the majority of subjects.

I agree with this, as with the conversation earlier in the thread around Shakespeare I don't think education is purely about what is "needed" for work, for one thing who knows what they will all end up wanting to do. But it's about broadening the mind, my son is very stem focussed and hates his drama and dance classes, I try to remind him he's young and needs to be exposed to lots of different topics, to give him a broad education and understanding, and there will be some children whose interest will be peaked for life. I haven't quite convinced him, but maybe one day he'll understand!

It's like when people bemoan languages (as I did as a teen) no the UK system likely won't churn out second language speakers, but I think it engages a different part of the brain and goes back to the argument of breadth of education in that regard.