How many GCSEs do kids take these days?

[backinthebox]

DS will choose his options next week, and we have only just been sent information home on this. DD chose her’s 4 years ago (same school) and did 11 GCSEs, but DS has been told pupils only do 8 now. This is obviously fewer than he was expecting to be able to choose, and he is worried about how this will affect his future prospects. Am I right in thinking that 8 GCSEs for a top set pupil is a rather low number?

9 is standard at my DC’s school, but they do offer a further maths qualification to the top set - classes run after school - so some do have 10.

Personally I think if the trend is to start offering only 8, there needs to be more flexibility about which subjects are compulsory. Perhaps English lit shouldn’t be compulsory, and there should be the option of a joint literature and language GCSE. Or a combined “humanities” GCSE with a little bit of history, geography and philosophy.

Just to remind people... its usually schools that limit the subjects, not the government. DD doesn't have to do any humanities or languages, they are entirely optional at her school. (She has actually chosen geography and Spanish as two of them, the third being Animal Care)

DS - Y11- is doing 9, on the triple science pathway. He then had to choose a creative subject, a language or IT, and geography, history or RE. This is the school's set up. English Lang, Eng Lit and Maths are compulsory under national curriculum.

Mine is doing 7 GCSEs and 2 Btecs.

DS did 14, last year. It was ridiculous. State school. In Wales so Welsh language, Welsh lit and Welsh bac in addition to other subjects including triple science.

8 is a far more sensible number. I did 10, ages ago obviously, and it was still unnecessary.

10 for dds at a grammar, because they have to do triple science, plus a humanity, plus a creative subject and a language.

I like the idea of it, because it gives them a couple of years extra to see where their interest lies.

It also allows them to mess up in an exam as that can then drop off.

Has it changed recently then op? It's strange that you're just finding out now, we made our choices for secondary school in year 6 based on what the gcse options were.

DS is year 8, and as things stand will be expected to take 12 which includes statistics and further maths as well as triple science and a MFL. He is top set for everything at a fairly average state school. The school do it to increase their standing in the league tables.
I am fully prepared to challenge things if it's too much for him.

Thank you JoanThursday and anotherusernameforthis

Does eng Lit need to be part of the 5? Is Eng lang, Maths, three sciences OK?
My child finds English literature virtually impossible even beyond the reading and spelling issues with dyslexia etc. English literature GCSE seems to require complex interpretation about what the author wants to make the reader feel. These can be extremely difficult concepts for some students who have autism and alexithymia etc.

Universities only requiring 5 GCSEs as standard minimum has cheered me up. My DC with SEND may have to drop out of school entirely but if it’s possible to study 5 subjects without closing off future options that makes me feel fractionally less anxious .

Many local authorities (despite every child’s right to a full time education) save money by providing only 5-10 hours tutor time a week for kids who can’t go to school. That’s often only after maybe a couple years of intensive often legal pressure from other professionals and the parents. So I still don’t know how not-school would work even with 5 gcses and probably impossible to fit in at 16 with all the disruption but it helps to know where the bar is for entry to university level sciences. (biology based studies)

My ds is doing 12 GCSEs this year in a state comp.

Hi @backinthebox lots of responses which show I guess that it varies from school to school. Eight is not unheard of tho I am not a fan. But I can’t see (sorry) why he can’t take maths, 2 English, two science, then extra science, humanity and one other? That’s eight? Or do the option blocks make that impossible? In which case that’s ridiculous and I would raise it with the school. Do you mean he has to do triple OR humanity OR MFL? And then RS and a creative? That’s not ok. For one thing no one will do ebacc subjects, which the school is judged on. Apols if I have got it round my neck!

I think your suggestions about a combined English or humanities is a good one, but I don’t make the rules! DS is very science focused, and dreads the idea of 2 English subjects. He was also struggling to choose between history and geography (until he realised he could not do one of those AND triple science. 🙄)

@arethereanyleftatall it must have changed in the last 2 years, as my DD was there 2 years ago and it was completely different. I can’t get to the options evening, so I am sending DD in to bat for me. They’ll wish that either I had turned up, or that they hadn’t taught her to present such a thorough case for her argument in the compulsory RS she did by the time she’s finished with them.🤣

I am mostly bothered that he is not able to take a humanity if he wants to do triple science though.

DD does

English x 2
Science x 2 (triple is not offered)
Maths

Options
Core PE (not GCSE but with a sports leadership and nutrition qualification
Computer Science
Geography
Statistics
Further Maths (after school, delivered remotely 1 lesson a week)

+CASH which seems to be RE and PSHE rolled into one and not a GCSE

😂 re your dd

You could just take an extra one online?

@clary he has Eng lit and lang, maths, and combined science as four core compulsory subjects giving 5 GCSEs. Then he has 3 option slots. One is a language, he must take a language. (The school is weak in languages though, this is the reason my daughter did continue there for a levels. He is already limited to a choice of only 2 languages, French or Latin, but he must choose one of these.) Slot 2 is either triple science, a humanity or computer science. The Slot 3 list contains all the creative subjects, all the humanities, RS, PE, second choice of language, or computer science. He wishes to choose computer science from this list, as this will be a preferred subject for a level, especially given the degree he hopes to pursue. The choice is very limited.

So the problem isn't so much the number, but the limited choices for each slot?

You can do science A levels without triple science gcse though.

So no one takes triple science and a humanity? Wtf? Seriously that is bizarre. Surely the school should be encouraging its more able students (and especially those keen on science) to take triple – but those students should also be able to access the range of subjects. I am astonished that the school has basically blocked anyone taking triple from the ebacc. I am not a fan of the ebacc being mandatory (see posts passim!) as MFL in particular does not suit all students, but I cannot believe the school is making it impossible.

Edit apologies cross post
CS GCSE is not needed for A level CS so if he wants to take a humantiy he could legit drop that. DS2 took CS GCSE and was not a fan. You need maths more than anything.

If you are keen on CS you can do lots of work coding in your own time and cover as much as the (rather dull acc DS2) GCSE so that may be a better way forward.

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads eng lit isn't compulsory under the national curriculum. I think it's a useful GCSE but it's not right for lots of pupils.

Just a thought @backinthebox - would he be happier with triple science, CS and geography/history? If so can you argue against the language? As it stands he won’t help the school’s ebacc figures anyway (the usual reason for compulsory MFL) so they may be ok.

Taking ebacc subjects or not will make no difference to him going forward (as long as he doesn’t want to donate level MFL obvs).

Ok, happy to be corrected on that.

English lit seems to be compulsory at most schools. Definitely wasn’t an option to opt out at DD’s school (even if a pupil was struggling with it!) which I don’t agree with. Despite being good at it she found the subject very tedious - who actually needs to know how to analyse poetry and Shakespeare?! A waste of time when she could’ve been doing something with real life benefit..

@OzCalling I have known parents successfully get their child removed from eng lit in some schools, particularly if they needed to focus more on getting their lang or maths up.

Having said that, if a student can manage eng lit I think it's useful. People tend to undermine it by saying who needs to know about Shakespeare but of course that's only a small part. The skills they learn in analysis and discussion reach far beyond Shakespeare and poetry.

who actually needs to know how to analyse poetry and Shakespeare?! A waste of time when she could’ve been doing something with real life benefit.

That’s depressing. I agree that Eng lit is not beneficial for all (and I have said so before on this board), but I am thinking of the tiny minority of students who for SEN or other reasons will never manage to gain a grade in it.

Who needs to know how to analyse Shakespeare? Well, he is only the most performed author in the world. Arguably the greatest writer ever. His influence on our language is immense and you probably quote him regularly without realising. Who knows, these students may one day go and watch a Shakespeare play or read a poem.

That’s like when my students would say “why do I need to learn French? I’m never going to go to France.” What happened to learning for the love of learning? It makes me sad when people seem to value learning only when it has a practical application.

So true @clary and of course these subjects are a gateway to other things. French may not be useful but the skill of learning a language may, and the understanding of another way of life.

10 or 11 here depending if they do combined or triple science.
2/3 science
2 english
maths
RE
4 options

I think it's okay but would be good if you could drop one you are struggling with. RE is compulsory but my DDs find it quite easy so I'm okay with that for them.

If DD could give up French I would be delighted though, it would save me money on tutoring for a subject she will never use again and she could divert the energy to other subjects and still have 9 GCSEs. She's conscientious though and wouldn't even drop to the foundation paper.