Private and state school pupils’ GCSE results are now the same, study finds

[IrisOlympia]

Interesting new study - thoughts?

www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/21/private-and-state-school-pupils-gcse-results-are-now-the-same-study-finds

It's not non selective. It's selective at least at the point of entry with fees that most people wouldn't be able to afford. Your home life is the single most important factor in how well you do school, something this study has highlighted well I think.
The Michaela head also commented on this before, that actually private schools get shocking results for the most part. They get kids from well off homes, with families that care about education and majority of these schools are academically selective. They should all have a 100% pass rate.

A private school that accepts kids with EHCPs, esp where the disability effects learning, is not your average private school, sorry. They're either known for their SEN support or are struggling for money.

What you mean here is intelectual disability due to the low IQ. I know quite intelligent girl with dyscalculia.

I don't know the detail. I know that the particular mum had her son with hearing/ brain processing problems in one of the private schools in Esher and the state paid his tution fees.

Dyscalculia is a learning difficulty

https://www.mencap.org.uk/learning-disability-explained/what-learning-disability

Yes it is but what I am trying to say is that is not necessarly associated with low IQ as it was stated above. Neither is dyslexia, dysgraphia. My son has learning difficulty: dyspraxia that affects his PE performance, his Art and handwriting results. Yet he is in top set at his school and I got postcards about his amazing number of positives he receives for class work.

Yes, so if the state paid that would be via EHCP

Correct. He has EHCP

A learning difficulty is not the same thing as a learning disability. The former may affect learning but it is not the same thing as a learning disability. The latter is a diagnosis in its own right and is linked to IQ.

Terminology differs in other countries e.g. USA.

That particular mother has a disabled badge for parking because of his disability. ( Funny thing, she suggested for me to get it for my sons dyspraxia 😂😅) Her son is educationaly high achiever. His disability is related to his condition and not low IQ

A learning difficulty can be a disability as per the Equality Act’s definition and people can be entitled to a blue badge &/or benefits, but it is not the same thing as a learning disability which is a particular diagnosis.

Ah that may it then

Ok I'm not trading the whole thread but surely averages aren't really relevant ? It's location. Where my kids grew up there was one very good private school, a mediocre secondary school two inadequate secondaries and further afield one good one. The private school performed much better than the others.
Take another area and the state schools may perform it even out perform the private.
There are differing auspicies to private schools as much as state. There are poor performing private schools. There are amazing state schools. Deprndsy where you live.

Where I live most of the private schools test kids before entry, only those that test highest get a place so really they should be expected to get better results than state schools with no entrance exams. Most parents here pay for tutors for their kids for a year or two to ensure they pass the entrance tests though so it is difficult to say whether the kids would do so well if they did not get the extra tuition. I would be particularly interested in seeing some kind of comparison between test results at age 11 (SATs?) then results for kids at state and private schools. Does anyone know if that exists?

Prep schools don't do SATs so that data doesn't exist

Where I live loads of parents send their kids to state primaries but switch to private for secondary. So there must be some data somewhere. 1/3 of the kids at my youngest’s primary went to private secondary.

According to government statistics, 162 independent schools sat SATs in 2023/24.

The majority don't

Clearly, since I posted 162 do.

Did they account for the strikingly different provision and entry requirements (or not) of state schools? State schools not being a homogenous blob?

Grammar schools are selective. Shocker / they have good exam results.

To present those grammar schools as the same 'state school' as an inner city sink comp is ridiculous.

Skews the data maybe? Yes maybe 🙄🙄🙄🙄. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a convenient ‘story’..

part of the problem that i have with the data is it doesn't measure things like mental health and wellbeing.
with so much school refusal and anxiety predominant in teens maybe measuring state vs independent on parameters other than grades would be of interest.
again the uk has such a variety of schools, a small rural secondary might very well compare to an independent if the environment is personal and nurturing and what one teacher might lack with regards to math or physics can be compensated for with online learning.
i've said it many times on mn, i would never send a child of mine to a gated or strict school regardless of the grades.

education is life long and a young person with decent grades, and a love of learning will go much further in their long term education.
but a traumatized youth who hates school and refuses to ever set foot in an "institution" again is a loss to a much wider community.

@GildedRage That's so true. And I hated private school and was happy at my state school. I went to private school for years 4-6. My family were wealthy enough for me to fit in fine at private school. But there were some absolutely toxic girls who dominated the atmosphere. And some teachers who were nasty bullies and treated people in ways I never experienced in the state.sector.

And I have a lot of friends who went to boarding school and ended up deeply messed up, heavy drug taking/competitive anorexia between girls/ nasty bullying or being excluded

Also how bizarre to assume a rural secondary won't have great teachers. Just really odd.

I had friends who went straight into teaching at their old private schools straight after university, no training in teaching whatsoever. And no particularly glittering academics either.

We had absolutely brilliant science teachers at our state secondary. One of them wrote textbooks for secondary school physics.in addition to his job

"i've said it many times on mn, i would never send a child of mine to a gated or strict school regardless of the grades"

No idea what a gated school is but many parents choose strict schools because they don't tolerate disruptive behaviour in class which means kids are free to learn without disruption. In some schools the teachers spend much of the lesson doing behaviour management, rather than teaching.

Extremely untrue in London and most of South East England i imagine. Unless you're comparing super selective state grammars to an average or lower tier private. Just look at your local schools' published results and %7-9 etc.