Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

[Baldrick23]

I don't mean this too horribly but when I hear that Jonny is a brilliant musician and has grade 7 aged 14 and might go to music school I die a bit inside.

So Im shaped by personal experience here. I did all the grades on the cello by 12 and was a decent cellist and a music scholar. But what parents need to understand is a couple of things. Unless you have grade eight at about 8 (or very soon after starting if later) then you aren't going to be a concert soloist. Even if you do you probably aren't going to be a concert soloist. I wouldn't even have probably made it to be a decent cellist in an orchestra earning 30k for a tricky life touring and barely able to afford anything. So everyone should remenber music is just for fun. None of the kids are going to make it. Just find out how talented you need to be "just" to be a music teacher at a school.

I cant say this out loud at the school gate so I'm saying it here!

Oh and if they love sport get them private 1 to 1 coaching even if they arent the next messi. Just as worthwhile. Forcing talentless musicians to scrape their way humourlessly to grade 2 is awful for everyone involved

What a load of bollocks!!

That's the biggest pile of crap I've read in a long time.

I know lots of people who make a living from music, and many didn't start until later on in life.

I think learning to read music is a helpful skill.

Is it a waste if they enjoy them though? Does it matter if they don’t make a living from it?

Classical musicians? Define make a living. I suspect they feel grossly underpaid and valued for their talent

But sure some people start late and do well (I did actually make that caveat if you read it!)

Surely the vast majority of people learn an instrument for enjoyment rather than anything else. My DH and his sister both got up to grade 8 on two instruments each when they were in their teens. My SIL still plays for fun, DH doesn't do anything much. But music lessons and the hours of practice they put in were because they wanted to, not because they were going to become musicians.

My experience is different to yours.

Music brings my DD joy. She learns social skills at music lessons. She learns patience, determination, resilience, exam skills, the importance of practice.

Most of all, she enjoys it. She teaches herself the tunes she loves. She experiments. She plays with friends.

She takes pride on her achievements.

Im sure I've read somewhere that music lessons are beneficial in other learning arenas such as maths.

She may not be a concert pianist. She may not teach. But perhaps she will. I'm not one to deter anyone from striving to achieve their dreams.

Absolutely not - of course play if you love it. It's the quite talented on a local level kids thinking they are going to be the next nigel Kennedy because noone gives them an honest appraisal of how hard it is to get anywhere in classical music.

And usually its not helped by parental pressure.
So people are talking endlessly about them going to music school and the kid is being told they are a musical genius and not getting good advice.

You can just do things for fun? That's ok. Why do you have to do everything thinking you might make a career out of it, how joyless.

I don’t think music lessons are a waste of time.

I do 100% agree that it’s a completely valueless skill for most kids - ‘valueless’ in that even the really talented ones are going to struggle to make a stable career of it.

However, nothing fun is a waste of time. I also really can’t think of another subject that illustrates so uncompromisingly that talent is nothing with practice and perseverance. And it stretches memory and creativity in a different way to most other subjects. And performing music teaches skills about poise and pacing and even just standing up straight and saying hello that can be valuable in any job that involves group presentations.

Bloody hell , I couldn't disagree more. I play a brass instrument, had lessons all the way through primary and secondary school, played at the county and national level and in the local brass band. I never wanted to be a professional musician, but I've always played. If you move around the country with jobs or family , joining a musical group is a quick way to find a social life and set of friends. I'm 54 now and still play for fun. It's so beneficial for my wellbeing and I still absolutely love it.
Both my DCs play and love music too.

You are so wrong @Baldrick23 . How on earth have you come up with such a completely ridiculous post?

My daughter is grade seven violin, grade five piano and grade five music theory. She has no interest in being a virtuoso, she just loves music. She has taught herself to play guitar, bass guitar, mandolin and mandola. She has an electric violin and plays in a band. The degree of pleasure she gets from her musical interests is impossible to measure. School wise, she’s a straight A student and it’s my belief that music has helped to develop her brain. Research bears this out.

You are talking absolute rubbish.

It's not about becoming the next musical phenomenon for well over 99.9% of the kids that take music lessons. Just because you weren't good enough for that, it doesn't give you the right to be so mean about those who reach a Grade II and love every moment of it - the skill required to get that far is still valuable in many, many ways.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3957486/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20children%20who%20undergo,and%20IQ%20in%20young%20adulthood.

As well as brain development, performing solo or as part of an ensemble helps hugely with confidence in front of audience. Music lessons are about so much more than merely learning a specific instrument.

You do have a point, but I disagree for several reasons. Playing in any kind of ensemble is hugely beneficial for everyone who participates. I know the music world can be every bit as competitive and nasty as any other sphere of life, but the benefits are enormous.
Only a select few soloists are ever needed in the world, but generally soloists are backed by an ensemble - sometimes a full symphony orchestra, sometimes just a pianist. There are vastly more musicians making a living as backing musicians, session musicians, music teachers, tutors, etc etc than most people are aware of (because they don't perform to the paying public). Many professional musicians neither want to be soloists, nor do they have what it takes to become one (temperament, discipline, resilience etc etc). Agreed that salaries are generally not high even for full time musicians.
But why rain on their parade and kick the joy out of them? What a fun sponge!

You know there is more to learning a musical instrument than getting a job right? It was brilliant for ds's dyspraxia - fine motor control and coordination. He was never going to be a musician and as you put it 'scraped' a grade 3 but it was entirely worthwhile.

I understand the parental delusion point. Even excellent classical musicians will likely fail to make a career of it. However I think there's enormous value in learning to play an instrument for its own merit. My kid comes from a family that can't hold a tune between us so the fact he's got to grade 3 is all his own achievement - great for his left esteem and his social life.

If people love it then absolutely and if they aren't doing it because everyone is wrongly telling them they are amazing also great. I still play too.q

But a lot of kids are made to do it for a few years when they clearly don't enjoy it as a rite of passage

And some kids take it far too seriously in their teens because of pressure, expectation and putting their eggs in the wrong basket.

I'm a purist the only reason to do it is because you love it. I'm not sure the majority of kids who do lessons, do.

Here is a link to some Cambridge Research into wether playing musical instruments improves intelligence.

Does Playing Musical instruments make you smarter

Absolute rubbish. In any case, learn music is not about preparing for a career in music for 99% of people. It's about having an enjoyable hobby for life and the possibility of playing an instrument in an ensemble or singing in a choir if people want to. Study after study has shown how music enhances the brain in other areas, too. When you condescendingly talk about being "just" a music teacher, please remember that, if it were not for people like me, you would not have passed your grade eight 'cello at the age of twelve. Music is not for the élite it is for everyone, regardless of ability.

The inverted comma "just" is making the point that this is an impressive thing to be - so you have taken this entirely the wrong way.

My point is it is difficult enough to get to the level to be a good music teacher let alone a concert violinist which is what people imagine they may end up doing

This is such a soulless take. I've never met a parent who thought their reasonably talented child was going to make it as a soloist. Music is such a good skill to carry with you all your life and creates a lot of joy, whether you play for your own enjoyment, mess about with friends or volunteer to help an amdram panto.Its not about beimg a star soloist for most people.

i have a musical child that is also lazy. He can play piano pieces by ear, used to sit down and tinker away. Hated performing in front of people because he couldn’t be bothered to practice what he was learning.

picked up another instrument in middle school and has played now through to his final year in high school. In band he has found his people. His tribe that have been with him through HS. He still doesn’t go for tryouts for region and state bands or practice very much but he’s a solid member of the band.

it’s been worthwhile for that alone and there is opportunity to join the band at college (uni) which will help him settle in and find a tribe there too.

I am sure there are over keen parents who hope for dazzling success but I’ve never come across them, and my kids go to a very musical school. It’s more about fun, performing, creativity etc

also I’m not sure being a grade 8 prodigy is the only path to a career - do taylor swift etc play at that level? Anything that feeds creativity is a good thing

What an unbelievably depressing view point. I took up the instrument I now make a living from in my 20s. But that’s still not the point. Music is for human connection, feeding your emotional IQ, personal enjoyment. Not making money. Jesus Christ.