Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

[Baldrick23]

I don't mean this too horribly but when I hear that Jonny is a brilliant musician and has grade 7 aged 14 and might go to music school I die a bit inside.

So Im shaped by personal experience here. I did all the grades on the cello by 12 and was a decent cellist and a music scholar. But what parents need to understand is a couple of things. Unless you have grade eight at about 8 (or very soon after starting if later) then you aren't going to be a concert soloist. Even if you do you probably aren't going to be a concert soloist. I wouldn't even have probably made it to be a decent cellist in an orchestra earning 30k for a tricky life touring and barely able to afford anything. So everyone should remenber music is just for fun. None of the kids are going to make it. Just find out how talented you need to be "just" to be a music teacher at a school.

I cant say this out loud at the school gate so I'm saying it here!

Oh and if they love sport get them private 1 to 1 coaching even if they arent the next messi. Just as worthwhile. Forcing talentless musicians to scrape their way humourlessly to grade 2 is awful for everyone involved

Seriously?

My whole family play brass instruments. For a while we all played in the same brass band.
Music is great for building perseverance, showing the practice is needed to improve, playing in groups with others.

We had some great times playing together, carols in the market square (bloody freezing but great atmosphere) to playing at summer fetes.

I have now retired due to ill health and continue to play in a brass band and have also joined two choirs, taken up bass recorder and am planning on picking up my viola again.

People don't do music to be the next big thing. There might be the odd deluded person but everyone knows there is no money in (classical) music and making it in pop is fucking hard.

They do it because it's fun (mostly) and you can play in groups.

Not really sure the point of the OPs post really. It’s depressing and narrow minded to the extreme.

Aside from the massive benefits to my neurodiverse child’s high school experience and finding her ‘place’ with her musical friends and supportive teacher…. (Oh - and yes, she took her BTEC a year early and received a distinction, which has allowed her to go into y11 with an invigorated view that she can succeed elsewhere, but anyway….) giving her confidence to perform on stage, speak about something she is passionate about and allow a creative outlet? No, no benefit whatsoever (massive eye roll).

I’m also going to point out my uncle, who was relatively well know in the ‘80’s (think TOTP and the Roxy) and has performed both front of 2 bands and as a backing musician, and hasn’t had to ever have a ‘conventional’ job as a result of this, following his career path with music as his strongest skill. And then there are all the friends we have made though his career as we are very close. Sound engineers, technical people, backing singers, studio owners, creatives, instrument makers and the list goes on. It’s a huge industry.

‘Someone’ will be an astronaut, a fine textile weaver, a specialised brain surgeon, a fine artist or any other career or skill you dont consider to be mainstream or common, but If you don’t nurture talent or even encourage it, you don’t know.

It's nice to have unified the whole forum in the support of music so I'm glad my post has done that. It seems my position is, er, not popular!

And some of the responses have been very well considered.

I'm happy to change my mind and if everyone is doing music for love then fantastic.

Don’t the vast majority do it for fun? Of all the kids I can think of there’s only one mum who reckons their chosen sport will be a career prospect. Most people just value extra curricular activities and hobbies that make us happy surely? And if it does turn into a career… bonus!

Rubbish. Ds and I have piano lessons, Dd, violin. I get joy and 10 minutes peace. By having lessons the kids have learnt to perform, grow in confidence and presentation skills. It helps with Maths. Both Dc achieved 9’s in music gcse by having grade 5 with very little effort. Ds plays occasionally at uni and has found it a way to start up conversations. Not all worth is measured in financial terms.

What are you talking about, OP?

By your reasoning, sports and art are also a waste of time.

And what about learning about geography and history in school? Most kids won't become professional geographers or historians, so isn't that a similar waste of time, by your logic?

Realistically, music, art and sports are probably far more likely to be things that adults still participate in on an amateur basis, so being exposed to music education as a child potentially gives them a hobby for life.

Sure, not every child is going to love everything, but that doesn't mean that music is a total waste of time for the rest of us!

OP, people are getting cross with you because your statement is “Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids”.Which implies that most kids don’t get pleasure or learn anything useful from learning an instrument, it’s just a chore parents force on them. Also a really weird implication that it’s only those who become a top level professional musician who benefit.

Ok, if that’s your view - I think it massively underestimates how much fun making music in a group or even by yourself can be. And that it’s something adults can enjoy too. But don’t pretend it’s not what you said and be surprised when people disagree.

Learning to play an instrument is such a great skill to have for SO many reasons (as others have already listed) but I do agree that passing music grades does not make you a good musician. Infact, there are many musicians and composers who can't even read music.

I cross posted with @Baldrick23 ”i’m happy to change my mind”

Admirable, but I’m not sure you’re doing MN properly. You’re supposed to flounce at this stage!

Not every child is.

No one is denying that a minority of parents are forcing their child to take lessons, and those children are unlikely to get that much out of the experience. And no one is denying that parents can over-estimate their children’s musical talents, though that in no way means that the lessons are pointless. And everyone acknowledges that the vast majority of young musicians won’t find their career in music… but again, that’s not the only or primary goal.

You were the one who posted a bunch of sweeping generalizations. People are pointing out that those blanket statements are bogus.

It's no different to dance, sport, swimming then if your only ambition is to be the 0.00001% that does it at an elite level!

DD does ballet and music. I have no expectations of her leading the LSO or the royal ballet. But she does hours and hours of it a week. Because there's so much more to it

Feeds into the issue of the moment: whether school is a waste of time because there are more graduates than graduate earning jobs. However schools and universities are about educating for broadening the mind rather than just for getting a related job

Err, not everyone sends their kids to music lessons because they believe them to be the next Mozart. Learning an instrument is part of an all-rounded education.

That's nonsense. DD has never taken a music exam in her life. She has no aspiration to be a professional musician. But playing in an orchestra gives her a whole group of new friends, and gives her a fun activity that isn't school or academic pressure and she has earned quite a bit of pocket money from busking.

I know so many adults who sing in a choir, or play in an orchestra or band, or play music in church or just to relax at home, or take an instrument to a pub to play folk music, or even sing karaoke for a fun night out. Music isn't for professional musicians any more than exercise is for professional athletes - it's just part of being human. I'm actually really sad from reading your post.

OP where is your soul?

Music is everything to so so many people, regardless of whether or not they make it their chosen career path.

I also did needlework at school, should I be upset I am not the next coco Chanel?

99% of parents paying for music lessons do so because their kid enjoys it and it's good for them and they might get a GCSE in music - not because they're going to be a professional musician.

Just the same as 99% of parents who are taking their kids to football, tap dancing and jujitsu classes. It's for fun, health and general wellbeing.

Nonsense! My dd had guitar then singing lessons which helped her to learn how to read music. Entirely of her own volition I might add. Then she taught herself to play keyboard and ukulele. She performed every year in the school show which was massively beneficial to her self confidence. She's not going to make a living from it, but she really enjoys it. I wouldn't have forced her to play the clarinet or tuba etc though or to take exams. Shouldn't it be fun?

My younger 4 play the piano because they love it. Although ds2 hates performing in front of people so he doesn't do that.

ds1 hopes to make a living from music. He started learning the piano aged 6 (as all my dc did) and did his grade 8 aged 17. He has autism and music is his therapy. If he sees a piano he is desperate to play it. He is unlikely to make huge amounts of money but hopefully he will make enough to live on. He is applying to study music at university at the moment.

My son has played guitar since very young and had lessons and progressed through grades. He's a teen now and not going to make a living from it but it's his outlet, he plays daily, makes some lovely sounds. Enjoys music tech, has a general interest in music and is very knowledgable. It makes him a rounded person x

I slightly get what you’re saying in that I was in that classical music world growing up and the best talented musicians were so revered and so well thought of that they were going to music college etc etc.
but then when you grow up you realise it’s a pretty crap career really. Underpaid for the vast vast majority with very little career progression. So few make a living without doing lots of teaching which can be soul destroying. And the living that is made is extremely modest. And you’re right these were THE BEST musicians of their generation.

however I still think it brings so much to kids! Sure most will stop after a few years but you never know the ones for whom it’s their thing and can bring much joy to them and others.

It’s a massive part of my life now as a big hobby and side hustle and has been great socially but am super glad I didn’t try to make a career out of it

I think every child should learn music. Singing in choirs or playing in orchestra is a different (and brilliant) type of teamwork, and the performance skills you develop are great for building confidence.

Where I sort of agree is that I do think that people should be a bit careful around specialist music schools. You need to be sure that your child does as well in all their other subjects as they would at a normal school, and it isn't "conservatoire or bust".

Same with football academies (although they're probably worse), they typically do BTECs not A levels, so if you're academic but don't make the cut for the team at 18 you've really limited your options.

This is an example of show me you're privileged without actually saying outright...

I learned the piano aged 5, a popular instrument aged 8 and a less popular instrument aged 15. Did grade 8 as a student in the last one.
I now (aged 50 something) play piano most often for fun but have recently played in an amateur chamber group and orchestra with the more in demand instrument. I also sang in a good church choir as a child.
I still really enjoy playing and singing and I'm only not at choir tonight because I did 3 hours of training and 1 of phone calls and my throat hurts.
It was definitely worth it to learn. I enjoyed learning and playing and still enjoy music. I also did O level music and lots of that stays with me. Nearly did A level as an extra but got ill in lower sixth and something had to give.

Kindly, this is a fairly myopic set of posts @Baldrick23. Letting kids dream is fine. Encouraging kids to stick at something which teaches them a skill even though they might not be talented at it, is an important life lesson and encourages discipline. Playing an instrument as a youngster, not loving it, but potentially being confident enough to pick it up again years later to enjoy and improves your mental health is a gift. Encouraging kids to learn and listen to music means there is a future generation that will - through choice - pay to go to over priced concerts to listen to the soloists, orchestras, bands and choirs in the future.

I say this, as someone who has played at a high level and taught many many moons ago. Many of my counterparts did go onto professional careers. And yes it is hard and under paid. But there are a lot more challenging careers out there.

I am a musician
that actually made it to just sitting in an orchestra and earning (a bit more than but not too much more than) £30k. I have had a WILD career, I've played at the Sydney opera house, I've been on tv, I've been to places I never would have otherwise, I've experienced immeasurable joy playing my instrument. It was totally worth it. Now I teach kids to play my instrument and none of them have any illusions that they're going to be a soloist and neither do their parents! Any more than they think they will be the next chess grandmaster or head of the armed forces if they're in the CCF. Music brings joy, frustration, ecstasy, diligence, discipline, perseverance....most people think that's worth it.

You sound really sad. Maybe play your instrument and try to kindle a little joy?