Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

[Baldrick23]

I don't mean this too horribly but when I hear that Jonny is a brilliant musician and has grade 7 aged 14 and might go to music school I die a bit inside.

So Im shaped by personal experience here. I did all the grades on the cello by 12 and was a decent cellist and a music scholar. But what parents need to understand is a couple of things. Unless you have grade eight at about 8 (or very soon after starting if later) then you aren't going to be a concert soloist. Even if you do you probably aren't going to be a concert soloist. I wouldn't even have probably made it to be a decent cellist in an orchestra earning 30k for a tricky life touring and barely able to afford anything. So everyone should remenber music is just for fun. None of the kids are going to make it. Just find out how talented you need to be "just" to be a music teacher at a school.

I cant say this out loud at the school gate so I'm saying it here!

Oh and if they love sport get them private 1 to 1 coaching even if they arent the next messi. Just as worthwhile. Forcing talentless musicians to scrape their way humourlessly to grade 2 is awful for everyone involved

I played 2 instruments, reached only grade 5 in both. I had no talent but a decent ear. I got a lot out of being in an orchestra and early solos boosted my confidence in public which fed into my later (non musical) career. I can still read music, sight read a tune and having played brings extra appreciation to listening. Not a minute of it was wasted.

You're projecting an awful lot.

Whatever your own feelings about your own musical background, you are not those kids and you are not their parents either.

I paid for music lessons for both my sons. It was not about them becoming a musician. It was actually about getting them to understand how to learn something (anything) by practice. My eldest son particularly was a kid who never wanted to do anything until he’d mastered enough theory and observation to do it perfectly first time. He struggled massively with trial and error in ewrLy years till 8-9. Music is fabulous at teaching kids that some things have to be practiced. Over and over. And not getting it right first time is standard, and with practice comes perfection.

It opened up many more opportunities for them both, just knowing they could do things even if they struggled at first. Given time, patience and practice. Particularly stuff around muscle memory and realising how that actually works and some things you have to put time in to repeat.

As a bonus, in my eyes, they learnt to read music, and perhaps more importantly due to a brilliant teacher to recognise “keys” of music of many different styles. That opened the door to them both being able to play stuff on guitars by “ear” some years later. And that in turn, offered huge social opportunities to be a useful person for group social gatherings—always useful to have someone who can crank out latest hits to sing along with. My eldest can bash a tune out approximately on a Piano as well just from that.

as someone who learnt the flute (badly) as a child and teenager, I was never going to be a musician. I hated practice and did as little as I could get away with. But I loved playing weekly on Saturday morning in the Wind Band. It was a buzz and high playing in a competent band and a great social events . Haven’t picked up the flute since I was around 21, except briefly a few times to see if I could still play. But I have great memories of those times, and a couple of lasting friendships formed over 40 years ago now.

i, and kids,also learnt to read music. Ok, it’s a niche skill. I’m not that great as I can’t truely sight read, but it is a handy skill to have from time to time. Like say allgebra🤷🏼‍♀️

So, it’s only a waste of money if you see everything as a means to making money or being successful at it. But many things in life are about the experience of learning itself, and enjoying it just for FUN .

I know someone who earns £300k a year building AI music related algorithms for videogames. Apparently there’s an entire team of them - they earn that much because they can play in addition to being highly qualified stem professionals

People do not all imagine their child will be a concert soloist 😂 in fact most parents hope their child doesn't get any notions of pursuing music as a career because many jobs are insecure!
For the vast vast majority its a wonderful hobby and I honestly don't know any parents of musical kids who harbour delusions their child is the next Hilary Hahn?!
Most i know encourage their kids to stick at it not because they have lofty ambitions, but because they want their child to learn to commit to something, to develop the resilience to keep going through the tough bits. Because above all? Its so worth it for the absolute joy music brings! It can be a lifelong hobby that may bring friends and great experiences to their life, what's not to like!

What a reductive perspective.

Creative endeavours are worthwhile in and of themself. You don't have to be a virtuoso, or an Oscar winner, or a child prodigy, or an anything. To create, to practice, to do it with other people is enough.

FFS we will totally deserve it if the borgs take over.

Thankfully now the music landscape is changing, people are recognising that there are lots of pathways through to becoming a professional musician and you don’t always start young. There aren’t enough people in the system so please don’t discourage the ones that want to go in it. All the conservatoires will tell you tales about lack of applicants and that is now feeding through as there are less teachers and therefore it’s harder to learn and down the spiral goes. People are put off by myths such as you need to be grade 8 by 12. It simply isn’t true. You don’t want to give people false hope, but the reality now is very different from 10 to 20 years ago. People are getting scholarships that wouldn’t have got a place back then.

My DDs enjoy music - eldest is a talented oboe player and knows where ever she ends up she’s always going to be able to find a band or orchestra. The youngest is leaning towards singing whatever they do, they’ll have an amazing hobby.

This 100%. Currently enjoying a financially and emotionally career as a piano teacher due to my early accomplishments . And btw, playing piano as a teen literally saved my life. I hated school, was bullied, self harmed etc and my only sanctuary was music. Even if I was " scraping " my way through grade four or whatever, I loved it, on a really deep level. Your attitude is awful and you display a terrible ignorance about the role arts can play in a child or adults mental wellbeing.

I had ten years of music lessons, starting at age 8. No one in my very middle class primary school started learning an instrument before age 8, so the idea that any normal child is achieving grade 8 around that age is pretty wild.

Am I a professional musician? No.

Was it all a waste of time and money? Also no.

• emotionally rewarding. Seriously, I'm so cross I can barely type!

Well you have all renewed my faith that all the kids are doing it for love.

I had in my mind this as the middle class equivalent of being convinced your kid was going to make it as a footballer which I'm sure I see at football club every weekend. But I'm probably imagining that too.

Glad you weren't at my dd's school gate when she was younger. I'd probably have made you 'die inside' talking about how much she was loving her music lessons. Music got her through a period of serious illness, and Covid lockdown when she couldn't do any of her other activities. It may well have saved her life. But she's not going to be the next Stephen Hough so waste of time, right?

Absolutely. Loads of benefits

I agree, bloody Mozart banging away on tbe ole Joanna, who needs that?
Give me Chas and Dave anyday. They knew how to play real music. GERTCHA!

Grade 8 by 8?!

Never lucky enough to have music lessons as a kid but really wish I had - I have many friends who get great pleasure from playing the piano etc

Music is the only (I think) activity that uses both sides of your brain. Developing your brain is never pointless. Listening to and making music can be social, solitary, for performance, to dance to, an impromptu clashing of pans or a spontaneous song. How ridiculous to think practising it in any form is not worthwhile.

Absolutely not. Playing an instrument can bring joy through your whole life. It doesn't always, but if a kid has grade 6 and can read music before their exams get serious, they can play themselves in future without any help. My son was a reluctant pianist and he dropped it the second I said he could - now he's playing Chopin.

It didn't cross my mind for a second it would be a career.

I love how every reply is "my kid loves it so it's not a waste of time" as if this refutes my point.

My issue is with the kids who don't love it or kids thinking they are going to make it when the odds are against them are that they are not necessarily having the best experience.

And yes obviously I agree. If you love it and aren't having pressure exerted to make it as a musician then fabulous.

I get so much joy from listening to my kids play their instruments. I can’t read music, was never given the opportunity. My husband can play the cello and piano. He plays just at home for fun essentially, he can help our kids out with their music too. It can just be for joy and fun?

Yes it can be for just joy and fun.

I must be talking to the wrong kids. The ones I hear hate practicing and only a small proportion love it.

So I will also add, my nephew was a professional classical musician. Went to music college. Played as freelance for about 4 years. Married to women who was successful concert pianist. Not top league but good enough to be in demand constantly and win BBC competition for piano section.

They did both make a decent living. There was plenary of demand. They loved the travel. They were even able to buy a house quite young off back of it, long before my own kids who had office professional jobs.

But then Covid hit. Then Brexit.

covid meant work stopped. Luckily the wife was officially employed by an orchestra by then so furlough. Then Brexit meant travelling abroad was going to get way more tricky, especially with expensive instrument in tow.

nephew decided he’d retrain in services (not military). She decided to retrain in another profession which is very competitive - she has just quailified this year after 3 years study and, like pretty much everything she does has been very successful winning allot of awards through training.

both of them have taken soft skills into their new careeers form their old music careeers. About self determination and persistence, self discipline (all that practice), ability to present themselves and “perform” to do the jobs they do now- calm, unflappability.

yep, all those years of musical training and expensive specialist schools etc could be seen as wasted. What they feel is they had fabulous times and experiences, they got to do the thing they loved. Not many people can say with passion they love what they do.
They have a talent for life that opens up networks and social life . But it was time to move on - Brexit and Covid were the catalyst that forced that decision probably sooner then otherwise, but eventually it would have happened. In my nephew case he knew he’d always be playing his instrument at that “professional” level, there aren’t promotions as such- just more stable jobs. He’d be playing the same piece when he was 67 as he’d been at 17. And he was far too restless for that. He’s now doing a very physically demanding job and loves it.

He says “never say never” to going back to professional music performing, but he is happy where it has taken him and what he’s doing now. He’d be horrified by suggestion he wasted that education.

I'm fucking shit at classical music. I'm an amazing teacher, though - I teach adults who always wanted to learn something but were put off by mean kids at school who were better, those whose parents didn't see the point if you can't get a grade 8 by age 6, those who were never going to be second chair.

I've taught kids who have been on the receiving end of this, too. And I get them performing, making a good sound, developing confidence, seeing their families and others applauding - some of those that I taught the absolute basics in my instruments, encouraged, supported, said 'of course there's a point, it's the music and how it makes you feel that's the point, don't let some idiot try and knock you down' had far more talent than I ever did and are subsequently working, presumably unlike you, as professional musicians. Others may not be performing or in a band (some are, though), but what they are doing is standing up in front of colleagues, clients and customers for presentations, tuition, pitches and training, not crying and running away, because it's their stage and they have the right to own it - which is what I taught them. It's theirs. Some are in the music or entertainment industry, some are technicians, some are managers, some lawyers. They're all owning their stage due in part to my enthusiasm, attitude and unapologetic 'Think you can do better? Maybe you can, but you're not pissing over my stage to do it' attitude to people sneering at their initial sounds.

It's their stage, not yours. So bog off with the 'it's a waste of time' nonsense. It absolutely isn't.

No, they are not a waste of time, they enrich the brain. Knowing how to read and play music is fantastic for the neural connections, not to mention that it can be a pleasurable pastime/hobby in adult life

If you never have lessons you'll never know if you're good at it or enjoy music or not- so it's always worth giving kids the opportunity to have lessons.