Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

[Baldrick23]

I don't mean this too horribly but when I hear that Jonny is a brilliant musician and has grade 7 aged 14 and might go to music school I die a bit inside.

So Im shaped by personal experience here. I did all the grades on the cello by 12 and was a decent cellist and a music scholar. But what parents need to understand is a couple of things. Unless you have grade eight at about 8 (or very soon after starting if later) then you aren't going to be a concert soloist. Even if you do you probably aren't going to be a concert soloist. I wouldn't even have probably made it to be a decent cellist in an orchestra earning 30k for a tricky life touring and barely able to afford anything. So everyone should remenber music is just for fun. None of the kids are going to make it. Just find out how talented you need to be "just" to be a music teacher at a school.

I cant say this out loud at the school gate so I'm saying it here!

Oh and if they love sport get them private 1 to 1 coaching even if they arent the next messi. Just as worthwhile. Forcing talentless musicians to scrape their way humourlessly to grade 2 is awful for everyone involved

Learning a musical instrument is just part of a well rounded education. Being able to read music and play an instrument is a useful skill. It used to be fairly essential before radio etc.
Sport is the same to most people.
These are also the things you return to later in life.

You could say this about all the Arts though. Not just music. At least there’s a bit more longevity in something like music as compared to something like dance, unless you want to teach. It’s sad that the Arts are so underfunded and underpaid. But you’re right, few people really makes a decent living from the Arts, but someone has to, so if you want it to be you, you have to try.

I didn't love music and didn't love tap, and am not talented enough to be a pro in either.

But being able to read music and dance reasonably have enabled me to do loads of amateur musical theatre as an adult, which I do love. So I'm glad my parents sent me to music and tap lessons.

My kids do music. It's a hobby. For fun. They both play in orchestras and are well ahead for their age. It teaches them the importance of practicing and patience. They dont need to have a job out of it

I too find your take unbelievably depressing. I'm a musician, I teach part time in the evenings in addition to my day job, so for starters, even though I didn't go to music college, it's been a handy additional source of income. But mainly, I've enjoyed it. Playing and singing in ensembles has enriched my life, performing has given me confidence I couldn't find in other areas. Music speaks in a way that words can't and (as twee as it may sound) absolutely soothes my soul.

I have 3 children who have all found music beneficial in different ways, one plays in a National Youth ensemble having reached grade 8 around the age of 12/13 and has just taken his performance diploma. Another never took any music lessons but plays piano by ear and finds it a great way to unwind and switch off. He is autistic and it has a noticeably soothing effect on him. My youngest had lessons for a while, got to about grade 2 and gave up because she didn't want to practice, but absolutely loved playing in school band and gets such joy out of performing. None of them plan to use music in their careers, but for all of them it has been worthwhile. I won't use the word 'investment' as it was never with the aim of being virtuoso musicians. But 'a waste of time'? Nothing could be further from the truth.

I’m amazed when people say you can’t make decent money in the arts. We all watch tv, film, stream music etc

it’s like a lot of jobs - some people do well and some don’t. You can say the same about some academic jobs, nhs, even some IT roles

Absolutely rubbish, music is amazing, it can open all kinds of doors. As an adult it's an excellent way to make friends for instance, and my dd - is a soloist and passed grade 8 at 16!

As for my other dd, only got to grade 4 but that was enough for the joint forces band.

Music is amazing!

My daughter plays the violin but it is purely out of interest, therefore a hobby. Not all interests and hobbies need to lead down a career path or be used to make money.

I get you. I was a super keen musician at school, but also very sporty and academic, and didn’t have pushy parents. I had never seen music as anything but a hobby until my mid to late teens, but then it became more important to me because I was loving it so much, doing quite well and therefore getting lots of opportunities, which was making it become even more important to me because the opportunities were amazing, which made me love it more and so on. I began to wonder whether I could do it as a career as it was much more fulfilling that sitting behind a desk doing schoolwork.

A peripatetic music teacher, not mine but known to me, said to me one day that there was enough work available in professional orchestras in the country we were in for, I think it was, 6 musicians that played his instrument. That work was currently split between about 10 people and they were are supplementing with additional work. Another peripatetic teacher, again they didn’t teach me, said to me that if I was good at anything else other than music then I should do that, and that he only recommended that anyone did music if they weren’t talented at anything else. So people in the system do warn children about the realities of working in the music industry.

I still dream about being able to do music for a living, but I am fully aware I never put in the hours and didn’t have the talent to go very far. I fundamentally disagree with it all having been a waste of time, though. I had the most amazing of times as a teenager and it has provided me with the ability to take part in a truly fulfilling hobby as an adult. I play with others on more days every week than I don’t in everything from orchestras down to trios, and I mix with a lovely community of people, from those who are still in their teens to those that are older than my nan. It is so, so valuable a gift to have been given as a child. I am so, so grateful for all those free lessons, rehearsals, residentials and trips, all funded by the (local) government and charities. What they gave me at the time and now as an adult is utterly priceless.

OP, it sounds like you might be heading toward changing your mind from later posts, but I have to say I think your view is utter rubbish for all sorts of reasons.

Most parents don’t think their child is going to become a classical musician. Sure, children don’t love every practice (I have three children each learning three instruments… they don’t skip to the piano every time), but the joy they get after a concert, or a good orchestra practice, or having fun jamming / playing around with a piece once they’ve mastered it really is pure joy. And when they don’t love it and practice is hard work, that’s also a great lesson. We actively talk about this in our house… I often use the example of (for instance) “remember that piece xxxx you found really hard to learn, and you cried thinking you couldn’t do it (yes, sometimes!!) and then practiced and persevered until you could and you were SOOO proud and now you love it…?” It’s given them so much resilience and confidence that they can achieve things if they keep going.

And I appreciate this is “success bias”, but I know (admittedly I did a fair bit of music to an averagely high level (ie grade 8 on a couple of instruments and beyond on one) so I do know music-y people):

• a close friend who is a successful (as in makes a living, enough to buy a small house etc - not rich or famous) opera singer - she did grade 8 on singing and piano in year 11
• a guy who did his music a level with me who also did grade 8 on his only instrument (double bass) in year 11 (on to diploma in 6th form) and he’s a pretty well known jazz session musician in NY
• a good family friend, bit older than me, who was a good school / local orchestras and competitions etc musician (couple of grade 8s, all in secondary school years) and is now a (literally) world famous rock musician
• My best friend who did all her grades at the same time as me (yr 11-13) and is head of music in a private school (did a music degree in a normal Russell group uni)

None of them stated any instrument before age 7….

So I also think it’s bollocks that a kid who isn’t grade 8 by 8 (what a load of tosh!) can’t actually make a living out of music if they love it!

Music is always worth it!!

Most things taught at school are a waste of time for most kids tbh.

I learned an instrument for fun. My teacher, free in school, didn't 'do' grades. Which was a shame, as I was the kid who put a bit more effort in if I had to pass a test. I played until I left for uni, just for my own pleasure. Can't read music anymore, but it's been nearly 30 years! I have taken up another instrument as an adult, teaching myself.

Both kids started learning guitar, but it was painful and I regret the wasted Saturday steins trying to get a 7yr old to practise. Neither dc, now teens, have any interest in music. Listening or playing, whereas dh and I love doing both.. they have no artistic desire or talent either. I'm not sure I bothered giving them half my genes; they clearly haven't been activated.

Most kids don't want to be a concert soloist in a bloody orchestra lol.

I know loads of musicians as music is a passion of mine and none have formal qualifications (most taught themselves, had just local tutoring and play by ear so can't even read music) or dreams of being in the philharmonic... many have had success and made money from music though.

Music is for everyone.

I paused my daily trumpet practice to tell you that your thread title is bollocks.

It is not a "waste of time" to take lessons in something that you gain lifelong pleasure from. I never made conservatoire and it was obvious quite early at school that I wasn't going to. Yet I carried on with lessons and I still play in ensembles and practice daily in my forties.

Managing the parents' and child's expectations isn't the same as giving up on them full-stop.

I've never understood the grading system. I have a friend who went through a relentless number of lessons and hit top grade for piano but I play better than her. I play by ear and I'm very musical but never had the chance to thrive in this field.

I'm not sure if lessons really matter if someone just isn't musical. In that case, yes it is a waste.

Yeah, I mean I use my A-levels in Chemistry and Physics all the time... NOT, despite working a lot in labs. My job is to deal with the IT that runs the equipment, not actually do the experiments.

My parents forced me to take piano lessons. I had absolutely no interest in doing so. My mother thought I should have lessons and I should be grateful that they paid for them.
A thoroughly depressing experience for both me and my piano teacher. Neither of us got anything from the transaction. I have NEVER touched a piano since I was 'allowed' to give up lessons. By all means support interested children but don't force an interest that isn't there.

Completely agree, based on my own experience. Not saying it's the same for everyone. I was made to learn an instrument, I played the piano and the violin at a young age and hated it and was terrible at both. I was then forced to pick another instrument so did the clarinet and was less bad at it (probably just relative because not as many people play it). Had to carry on all the way through school and eventually got through grade 8. I never played a single note of music again after I left school. I was/am so much better at sport than music but my DMum was just so set on music.

A waste of time?
What is wrong to do it just for the fun of it?
With the grades as a target to learn more challenging pieces, just because many people do better with clear structure and goals. Not all, but many benefit from doing the exams. Boosts confidence. Also, from a certain grade it counts as a qialification. Something more for your CV.
They can play for the rest of their lives. Entertain themselves in a meaningful way. Connect with others. Use it to express themselves, to vent, to decompress. They will always enjoy music with that extra knowledge.
How can you possibly say that is a waste of time!
No hobby that challenges them in a healthy way, that they can take into adulthood can possibly be a waste of time!

I think if your sole goal is to be a concert soloist then yes that is very difficult. But for many people it isn’t. I’m a professional classical musician, took grade 8 at 11, played concertos through my teens and went to music college. Realised when I got there that actually I preferred a different way of making music and now have a varied career (a ‘portfolio career’ as they told us at music college) of performing, teaching and a lot of working in community and medical spaces as a musician. I earn enough to support myself - no it’s not big bucks but I have my own house and am able to pay for clubs for my kids etc. I teach teens preparing for music college and none of them have the goal of wanting to be a concert soloist, they just want to do something with the music. I also work on a project teaching my instrument to kids living in disadvantaged areas. Do they always want to do it? No definitely not. Is it teaching them perseverance, developing different areas of their brain, social skills etc? Absolutely. I’m sorry you are feeling so down about your experience. When you are that good that young it can feel a bit all or nothing and I really struggled with that for a good while.

Hard disagree.
My kid is in the third year of a music degree, having done grade 8 age 15. He’s hoping to be professional afterwards. He has no desire to be a soloist and is already picking up bits of paid work.

Im sure I've read somewhere that music lessons are beneficial in other learning arenas such as maths.

That was my understanding. Also I think a broad education is as important as an in depth one.

I went to primary school with a boy who at 8/9 was indeed a grade 8 violinist, he left at the end of that school year to go to a specialist music school. Won a scholarship if I recall correctly. Can’t remember his full name after all these years so no idea if he did “make it”, but he was very, very talented.

I know a few others who make a living out of music and more who learned just because they enjoyed it.

My daughter is learning the piano. Doesn't want to do grades which is fine. Learning to read music and understand it is an important life skill imho. Not necessarily to make a living out of it