Missing school trip as extra punishment - fair?

[Khaite]

DS (15) is going out with a classmate. Today they were caught coming out of a disabled toilet together by HoY.

HoY didn’t say whether there would be a consequence for this, but DS confessed to me anyway.

Late this afternoon HoY emailed me and said DS would miss the practice Duke of Edinburgh school trip on Monday and have an internal exclusion that day instead. Then I was to come in for a meeting on Tuesday morning.

i completely accept DS having an internal exclusion. However it feels an extra punishment that he has to miss the DoE trip. He’s practised for it. His year have had no whole-day school trips at all , ie throughout years 7-10, because of Covid and then the school being crap about it, so he was really looking forward to this.

Do you think it’s unfair he has to miss the trip? I want to ask if he can do the day’s exclusion on Tuesday instead.

Actually, yes, misbehaviour like this, and more serious (like fighting, possession of banned items, letting off fireworks after detention...), is often addressed in tutor time, briefings or assemblies at my school.

Kids talk and do know what's gone on and it's better if we take the issue from them, explain why the behaviour is wrong and make it completely clear what our stance is on punishment.

We're there to educate and teach behaviour as much as anything else. Yes teens push the boundaries, but also need to be made to understand exactly what's expected.

He’s obviously very difficult to supervise. I wouldn’t be happy having him on a trip involving any kind of overnight stay or unstructured time which is the essence of the doe trip. It massively opens the teacher to issues and I would refuse to take the trip with him on it.

No he’s not ”obviously” “very difficult” to supervise from ONE incident. It was a very stupid thing to do but as I said, in the email the HoY described my son’s behaviour otherwise as fantastic and said he had a very impressive work ethic. The staff are very positive about him generally.

Perhaps their trust in him will now be completely eroded, perhaps they’ll just not trust him specifically regarding wanting to sneak away with his boyfriend but will for other things. We’ll see.

Of course, but I doubt if this school was going to do it, they’d do it so close to the incident, so as to protect the privacy of gay students who are very much in a minority.

They are aware that DS received homophobic abuse from another student recently - the school dealt with it - and that there’s some homophobia generally, so I’d hope they’d be mindful of that. That’s something for me to raise I think. Thank you for that.

I would say using writing as a punishment is not a good idea in schools. You’d hope a TA would understand that

@Runninggirls26 it was not suggested as a punishment. It was suggested as a tool to demonstrate to the school that the son understands why his actions were not acceptable.

Trust us.
It really really is.

Tbf, I'm going to need a spreadsheet for the dripfeeds from the OP before long.

Why?

If you get kicked out of a cinema/theme park/water park because of poor behaviour you wouldn't get your money back?

If you were rude to train/bus/airport staff and weren't allowed to board, you wouldn't get your money back.

The teachers aren't keeping the money. The school isn't keeping the money. The company/site they are going to has the money and they won't refund for that!

Second this ^

Completely fair. This was pretty shocking behaviour. I'd be backing the school up!

Hmm. I'm having similar with school atm so reading with interest.

Oh stop exaggerating & frothing FFS

It’s primarily a disabled toilet for students and others that is also used by non-disabled teachers generally. It has a dual purpose. Schools are allowed to make disabled toilets multi-functional, but functionally it is a disabled toilet as I said. Personally, I think him being in a disabled toilet with his bf is bad full stop, and I’ve certainly made it clear to him that it’s wrong to go into a designated space for disabled people regardless of what he was doing. Point is, he shouldn’t have been in there.

All the relevant details were in my OP. Unless you think him being gay is a drip-feed?

If I was a teacher at the school I wouldn't want to do an overnight trip with a child who can't be trusted not to sneak off with another pupil especially when underage. To be honest I think they might be trying to avoid a safeguarding situation. What if his (presumably also underage?) Gf makes accusations about him? I think you need to back up his teachers and make it clear how serious his behaviour is

Whether it was a disabled toilet or staff toilet is not the main issue. The main issue is that 2 (or more) children locked in a toilet cubicle is a massive safeguarding issue which is dealt with seriously by schools. The OP's son would have known this.

From my OP: “ I completely accept DS having an internal exclusion.”

To spell it out for you, I totally think it warrants punishment.

I think it's a shame that he'll miss the trip, especially since it's been paid for by you.

I'd ask if the exclusion could be moved to the Tuesday.

He sounds like a good student who made one mistake/error of judgement. Who hasn't?!

D of E is something mature and responsible children do.

Your son is currently neither and cannot be trusted in school let alone on an independent expedition.

Back the school and tell him so.

I'm not sure why you are even questioning this.

Quite a major one though!!!

@NutByNight yes exactly, my son did know it was wrong and he shouldn’t have been in there with another student. He was deliberately trying to be out of sight with his BF.

Oh come on @Sagarmatha, what teen hasn't done something similar?

This - it’s done out of school, under the auspices of the DofE organisation. I think the decision to exclude from this when a consequence has already been applied is unacceptable. I’d take it up with the Head Teacher.

Why can't you move an exclusion day if insisting on the original day results in a double and disproportionate punishment? Surely the point is the exclusion, not the day it happens?

The issue with this is the safeguarding nightmare it's caused for the school. Because your DS and his BF decided they wanted some alone time (and no way were they just kissing - being a little naïve I think) school will now have to invest a lot of time in to assessing safety of children.

It's a minefield that teachers and schools are getting fed up of the lack of parental support. As a previous head of year I have dealt with kids having sex in toilets more than you would think. Then we get grief because the toilets are locked.

Your son has made a serious error of judgement and the punishment it fitting (and probably lenient because he is a good kid)