Missing school trip as extra punishment - fair?

[Khaite]

DS (15) is going out with a classmate. Today they were caught coming out of a disabled toilet together by HoY.

HoY didn’t say whether there would be a consequence for this, but DS confessed to me anyway.

Late this afternoon HoY emailed me and said DS would miss the practice Duke of Edinburgh school trip on Monday and have an internal exclusion that day instead. Then I was to come in for a meeting on Tuesday morning.

i completely accept DS having an internal exclusion. However it feels an extra punishment that he has to miss the DoE trip. He’s practised for it. His year have had no whole-day school trips at all , ie throughout years 7-10, because of Covid and then the school being crap about it, so he was really looking forward to this.

Do you think it’s unfair he has to miss the trip? I want to ask if he can do the day’s exclusion on Tuesday instead.

I'd absolutely be backing the school. Your son needs to learn the consequences of doing something wrong.

@ichbrauchenichts99
To ask if the internal exclusion can be on Tuesday - the next in school day.

Why? Because it suits him?

No because the standard repercussion for that action is an internal suspension on a school day. He is now missing a school trip which I'm guessing was paid for AND being internally excluded. That's two punishments.

It's usually the next school day. If you start to mess with that, every parent will want to negotiate a "more convenient" day.

But how often would the next school day fall on a school trip...
These are children, they mess up and they make mistakes. Absolutely they should face the consequences but when the norm is to be internally excluded and this child has to miss a trip AND go into isolation, then it is not an equal and fair punishment.

On what basis?

The punishment for multiple occupancy of a toilet (which happens loads) is internal exclusion. I would agree that missing a school trip as a result of this internal exclusion would be an additional punishment which would not normally be applied to others who hang out in the toilets and therefore you should ask the school whether the internal exclusion can happen on a different day to avoid this. The internal exclusion would have just been applied automatically without someone thinking of trips and it would be up to the student/parents to raise it.

BUT it is really worth finding out what they think was going on in the toilets.

Very simplistic of you to assume that because I wrote a post on here asking for advice before contacting the school, that before even that I hadn’t spoken to my son about his behaviour.
Of course I fucking did.

Well you know, I haven’t actually tried to undermine teachers as of yet, so you can save your frothing. I came here for a sounding board and reality check.

It wasn’t a gf. Amazingly, some people are gay.

I’m glad you pointed out it wasn’t a classy move, because that hadn’t occurred to me

OK, well I guess that's even more tricky with the DofE as tents are shared by the same sex.

There are quite a few safeguarding issues here.

Thank you all for the considered advice, much appreciated. I was upset last night (especially with DS in case a few hard of thinking posters need that pointed out), because it’s a real shame he misses the trip, even if entirely appropriate.

A few things:

DS’s behaviour is usually extremely good. In fact the HoY noted it as “fantastic” in the letter, saying DS “has a very strong work ethic”. In the last school year he’s had no other sanctions beyond a detention for not doing his maths homework on time once and being late once.

The toilet isn’t just a disabled toilet, it’s used by teachers and is usually locked, you need a special key to unlock it. But it happened to be open and they ducked in. DS has ADHD and unfortunately can be impulsive, and the other boy unfortunately is also impulsive and is being investigated for ADHD…

Because of DS’s ADHD, I have a very good relationship with the school as we’ve worked hard together to support DS who got diagnosed while at the school.

No they weren’t having sex in the toilet, they were kissing. I am absolutely positive DS hasn’t had sex yet because of how he’s viscerally reacted when I’ve discussed that with him since he started saying his bf, and what he said yesterday. He is very open with me, and as I said, he told me about being caught before the school did even though the HoY had given no indication it would be followed up.

Believe me, DH and I made it very clear to DS how inappropriate this is.

No, no tents.

It’s a day trip to a park. No overnight stay. And the bf isn’t doing DofE anyway.

The person who put the sanction on the system probably isn't even aware he's meant to be on a trip then.

You appeared to be looking for validation to get a lesser punishment for your child but maybe I misunderstood your question.
I apologise for assuming it was a girl, yes I accept that I was wrong, lesson learnt (or is it learned, I never know)
As you hadn’t referred to having a word with your child about his behaviour I was curious about what, if anything was said to him. Personally I’d have punished my son as well as the school punishment but that’s my child and I don’t know your son, you would certainly know better than I would whether it was warranted. You are being a bit snippy when questioned. Take a break from the thread if it’s upsetting you.

@noblegiraffe no, they know as it’s the HoY.
They mentioned him not going on the trip in the letter.

Unfortunately they tried calling me at 5:30, I missed the call. I then saw it, saw it was a withheld number and wondered if it was the HoY about this so emailed at him to ask, crossing emails with him. It’s a shame we didn’t get to discuss it because I would have asked about the trip naturally.

While
I totally understand that actions have consequences and that thankfully I have never disagreed with my children's teachers ( luckily never had to) and I am totally up for trusting the teachers with appropriate punishment- my son has done 2 D Of Es and I had to pay for them both . Therefore in this instance I don't think it's totally up to the school to decide he can't go. Unless they are going to reimburse some of the money that has been paid. If it was a trip/ event when the school Paid or was free then yes totally up to the school but if parents have contributed I don't think it's as clear cut- I'm in no way belittling what the child did or the teachers I know Actions have consequences but when parents money has been involved I think it changes slightly.

Of course your Son said they were kissing.

He wasn’t going to say ‘it was only a BJ!’ Is he.

As somebody with combined ADHD we can still exercise control.

You are being a bit snippy when questioned.

@UnpackingBooksFromBoxes I was a bit snippy to two posts out of over 50 because you and the other poster made stupid assumptions and seemed to relish the opportunity to have a bit of a go. I assumed it was clear I didn’t approve of my son’s behaviour as I said in my OP I thought it was appropriate he had an internal inclusion.

Take a break from the thread if it’s upsetting you.

Didn’t you have to pay for DOE? I just had to pay £30 for my daughter to do it next year.

I wouldn’t be impressed at them keeping him off for something you have paid towards.

It's fair.

How can teachers trust him now?

Well know, but as I said, I’ve had several conversations with my son about sex so have an idea from that. Also they were only in there a minute, that’s verified by the school.

I have ADHD myself. Yes we can exercise control. Although teenage boys with ADHD probably less so. Not that that’s an excuse. I was explaining it was an impulsive not planned decision.

In answer to other Qs, yes we paid. So I do want to ask about that.

If the trip is on Monday that doesn't leave any time to object. What did they say in the letter about missing the trip?

I would say that m to m sexual activity in schools is possibly more common than m to f. (almost certainly so if you account for a lower number of m to m relationships than m to f )

You need to focus your conversation on Tuesday morning about safeguarding. Check what referrals have been made. What advice has been given etc etc.