Teachers - If you have a child in your school who misbehaves would you think the parents are to blame

[Stressey]

My dd is 14 years old (year 9). She goes to a grammar school. Her behaviour at primary school was good but she has been on-a decline since being at secondary school. Low level distribution and being surly to teachers. I’m a naturally quiet person who would never dream of being rude to anyone. I’ve always brought my children up to be polite so I’m dismayed. I feel her attitude reflects badly on us as parents. If you are a teacher what would expect us as parents to do? I want to support school but feel helpless. She is rude to us but removing phones etc is not improving the situation.

Quiet, polite parents come unstuck when their lovely little children become teenagers because all of a sudden they get a mind of their own and don’t necessarily see the world the way you see it. Do you know your dd? Her friends? Her interests? Her hopes and dreams? Do you still treat her like a child? Do you have academic expectations for her? Is she happy?

If you don’t know her as person (rather than an idea of her as your child) you won’t get to the root of her behaviour.

You could try the book “How to talk so teens will listen” by Adele Faber.

I would wonder if the secondary school were pitching the learning at the correct level for my child
Most kids will tell you Y7,8, 9 is often a repeat of primary school ( for no good reason)
This was an area of my professional life - trying to get secondary teachers to raise their expectations
Also Primary schools tend to be good at deal with ND pupils - at secondary school it is not the same and this may lead to frustration
Other than that I would wonder about any other changes - but start with the school

My child was low level disruptive in primary until lockdown of Jan 2021 when he broke down. Visibly distressed, hitting, screaming and the school blamed me. I was the bad parent who needed a parenting course and the school was painted as angelic. After school refusal and us paying £1k+ we found out he was gifted and bored at school. Still the SENCO refused to believe us and whilst some adjustments were made it wasn't enough.

There are so many reasons why a child might misbehave - him because he was bored, others because they were jealous of him, genuine struggles with learning, etc etc. Start by talking and see where this goes.

Frankly yes. And when you meet the parents it's often onvious why

I wouldn’t automatically think parents are to blame, no.

But if I contacted the parents about the behaviour and they came back with attempts to justify their kid being a dick, or blaming or undermining instead of supporting the school, then I’d start to think the parents had a hand in it.

So I’d want the parent to agree with sanctions, and say that they would talk to the kid about their behaviour, backing up the school. Removing phones or whatever is a bonus!

Not a teacher now, but a youth leader.

Yes, you sometimes pick up a certain patenting style from the behaviour of the children.

But its not always that simple. It wouldn't be the first thought. That comes out to how a parent responds to any issues raised.

For example... we have a parent that believes in raising their children to be "free spirits". The children aren't that good in distinguishing between beinga bit creative in a task or following safety instructions.

I think that you should talk to your dd because it's unclear if it's teenage hormones in an inflexible school (grammars aren't known for flexibility as they are more focused on results) or her behaviour is out of the norm for teenagers and needs further investigation. Sometimes SEN aren't obvious until the child is at secondary and it's clear that they aren't like their peers. Is it the same teacher lodging complaints or different teachers complaining? Is it subjects that she likes or doesn't? I think that it might be worth finding out if there's a pattern to her behaviour.
I'm not saying that her teachers deserve bad behaviour btw. You mention that you were quiet and would never have been rude to a teacher. Did you live in a home environment where you were scared of your parents ?

This is pretty ignorant thinking tbh. I have 2 children who are the exact opposite of each other in behaviour.

I work in school and i dont judge parents based on the kids behaviour. I know better than that, because my DS is also quite problematic in school. He is mostly wonderful at home, but teachers describe him as loud, naughty, disruptive, rude, etc. He is very clever though and writes straight As, so I guess hes just very bored in school.
Its not bad enough to do much about it, teacher just keeps saying we have to work on it. Not much i can do though, when im not there 🤷🏻‍♀️ I suggested they give him more difficult tasks to work on. This has helped a little, but the teacher doesnt do it often because its too much of a hassle.

Im not sure really what the parents would be expected to do tbh when the kids misbehave at school. They can have rules and boundaries at home of course, but that doesnt mean the kids stick to it in a different environment.

@Maddy70 …. This is exactly what I fear. Both my husband and I are polite and I have always apologised to school if they have contacted me. I always fully support any sanctions at school and would never question any discipline. My husband and I rarely argue and we have provide a loving home with firm but fair boundaries.
@BoohooWoohoo in answer to your question - no not strict but very loving and happy home. My parents said they very rarely had to tell me off and I was a happy and helpful child. I guess just thought by replicating what I had that my kids would turn out ok.

With respect, it doesn't matter what anyone at your child's school thinks of you. Your duty is to do right by your child - address the behaviour in question, but don't be excessively ashamed or dismayed about it. It might not be how you would want your child to behave, especially if you yourself would never have dreamt of behaving in that way, but it's hardly the worst thing in the world on the scale of bad behaviour. It might just be a phase and the school will apply suitable sanctions at school and you can encourage better behaviour at home.

Did you grow up in a household where shame was used as a parenting method, by any chance, OP? I did. My parents were lovely in many ways and they never hit or shouted (as their parents had done to them), but instead we'd get "I was so ashamed today when you were sulking and not being friendly to X" or "I can't believe you and Y were doing this. Do you know how that makes us look as parents?" We were expected to be pleasant, helpful and respectful at all times or our parents made their disappointment clear. It has taken my siblings and I a long time to stop being nervous, unconfident people-pleasers.

Even now, it makes me nervous at parties when I see transgressing children being dragged away by parents scolding about how awful they are and how no one will want to be their friends if they behave like that. I much prefer the parents who call their children over calmly and say "that behaviour is not acceptable. If you do it again, we'll have to leave", rather than taking their children's misbehaviour as a personal insult.

Most of the time l do. But not always.

There used to be situations of 2 or 3 children in a family. 2 would be lovely, one would be a wild card. I wouldn’t blame parents in that situation. It was often the youngest.

But whole families of naughty kids? Yep I’d blame parents.

Yes it's usually obvious to teachers which parents have difficult children with no SEN. Either the parents are confrontational and argumentative, or, much more commonly, they're weak-willed floppy and ineffective and I just wish they would grow a backbone and realise they are the adult, their child is not their friend, and that their job is to do the best thing for the child which is to teach that child how to behave so they function effectively in adult society and access the opportunities that arise from being able to function.

Commonly, they say "I don't know what we can do" when what they mean is they don't want to make an effort and have spent maybe 30 seconds thinking about it before going back to looking at something on their phone because it's easier than actually sorting their child out. Or they say "we've tried everything" when they mean they have been inconsistent and never given any approach time to work because they think doing it once or twice will be a magic wand.

When my own child started showing preliminary signs of poor behaviour, I researched everything I got my hands on and tried an approach consistently for weeks until it started to work.

Everyone's child behaves badly sometimes. It's what you do about it that determines the outcome.

Yes I would blame parents most of the time, the parents I wouldn’t blame are the ones actively engaging with the school to improve the situation

Honesty mine was awful. But he was bad at home too. I didn't manage him very well. (He has sen) I was definitely partly to blame. I would get frustrated instead of following strategies. My previous comment seems harsh. I meant o was inconsistent and so are lots of parents and you can see that when you meet them

I would imagine, since it’s a grammar school, that there is academic rigour. Do you think the work is too difficult, so she’s being disruptive to avoid showing she doesn’t understand?

It might be just testing the boundaries, but whatever it is, you need to be consistent in your expectations and support the school in theirs.

I have never blamed the parents until they have proved that it is their attitude that is causing the issues.

No, but as long as you support the school and work with them this is the main thing.

Students sometimes have coming of age issues, anger, anxiety (that comes out as rage) etc. working with the school can help, if you’re on their side this will be frankly a relief to them.

kids are not always the same as the parents, often they can be, but not always.

I have two daughters who were both fine through primary school, the eldest started the local high school and was fine for the first few years. Behaviour started to change throughout the whole school with my daughter being one of the naughty ones. Second daughter started and she was in trouble from the start. Forgetting uniform and pens, late to lessons, cheeky….constant detentions. I decided I must be a terrible parent as why would both turn out so bad 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Moved the younger daughter to a different high school and she’s like a different child, never in trouble actually get emails telling me how good she’s been!!!!

Kept my oldest at the local school as she’s in her final year and still constant problems. I think it has a bit to do with catchment area, my dd’s are drawn to the naughty popular crowd which is a lot worse in the local school. They are acting out to fit in with friends. A lot of staff have left and they are trying to crack down on behaviour but unfortunately kids act like the others that are not behaving. It’s difficult to put right.

Are the parents to blame. It’s not a simple yes/no answer.

14, year 9. Often not a good age - either for the child in question, those who teach them or their parents.

As a generalisation…..

ys7 and 8. Normally still working for teachers, praise etc.

ys 10 and 11. Hopefully the penny has dropped and they have realised that they are working for their own futures.

y9. No man’s land. Not working for praise, not working for their futures.

I used to joke about the 5 Ps that affect pupils and their outcomes…

Peers
Parents
Puberty
Pot
Promiscuity. Not all apply to every Y9 but you get the idea.

All the best - they do get better - usually. One of ours had her wayward year in Y9. Assistant Head now.

Exactly that.

I used to be a teacher and parents of annoying teenagers came in 2 categories. The first one,thought their kids could do no wrong and were clearly so clever and amazing that it was my fault if they misbehaved in my class. Detention/punishments letters came back with long explanation reinforcing how I clearly did not understand their brilliant child. Parent evening meeting were along the same line. The second category were lovely parents who were overwhelmed by the fact their lovely child had turned into a monster overnight and were the first to admit they just did not know what to do with them anymore. I had every sympathy for the second type of parent.

I think the schools opinion of the parents is formed when discussing the behaviour of the child with the parents and their subsequent reaction to hearing the news

if you asked your DD if she can explain. Is it just in certain lessons, maybe she is bored in some and could be given extra tasks, or maybe she is struggling and these are tactics to divert from that. Hormones affect us all differently and will likely be part of it. My DS became difficult in some lessons at this age, mostly being disorganised and chaotic, tired and having a huge growth spurt, but wasn’t a difficult child in general.

My son never lies to me. This is because since he was very little I kept telling him that if he mischieved something at school I need to know immediately because I need to prepare the line of the defence 😃. I alway defend him. Always. Like a lioness. Even if I tell him off I will still be on his side. Especially that the teachers report to me bunch of nonsense.

I have been a secondary teacher in a big comp for 20 years and have seen all sorts of reasons for poor behaviour.

Most common are unmet SEN needs or some kind of trauma/difficulty at home. I would say 80% of our kids who are struggling.

We also have children from neglectful homes eg in care who have no behavioural issues and children with really supportive parents who struggle with their behaviour.

Agree with point above - finding a calm time and trying to talk in depth - why is the behaviour happening? Maybe difficult to articulate though.