Teachers - If you have a child in your school who misbehaves would you think the parents are to blame

[Stressey]

My dd is 14 years old (year 9). She goes to a grammar school. Her behaviour at primary school was good but she has been on-a decline since being at secondary school. Low level distribution and being surly to teachers. I’m a naturally quiet person who would never dream of being rude to anyone. I’ve always brought my children up to be polite so I’m dismayed. I feel her attitude reflects badly on us as parents. If you are a teacher what would expect us as parents to do? I want to support school but feel helpless. She is rude to us but removing phones etc is not improving the situation.

My daughter is an angel at school but a nightmare at home ! So rude, and makes the whole family dynamic miserable.

Yr 9 is renowned for being the most difficult year

Hormones

@JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything "undermining a teacher in a sense of evil way and I am not talking about civilised contr argument in a class debate is insulting and it is misbehaviour. But kids distrupt for various reasons. Not only emotions are the main cause. Some as you say have low self esteem. And some as you know are neuro diverse. There are a lot of kids with undiagnosed problems. ADHD is an example of those. In the old days teachers were considering them disruptive. Nowadays we know more. The same for ASD and many other types. I sometimes think what the future psychology will discover. What other behaviours considered today as disruptive will have a psychological or medical explanation."

You replied to me about it not being neurodivergency but about social dynamics and are with this reply now bringing ND into it so it's not clear exactly what your point is.

BTW low self esteem IS based on emotions, it's not separate from.

@DangerousAlchemy "My DS is confident, loud, funny, happy & a bit annoying at times and finds it hard to sit still & concentrate in certain lessons."

If he is distracting himself and others then that is an issue. There is a time and a place to be loud and lesson time isn't it. Does he do it during lessons? Does he distract others on purpose? If so, why do you think he is doing it?

I don't feel his previous English/form teacher was professional at all unloading on you the way he did, but he must've been following school policy to apply sanctions? It sounds like trying to educate the cohort with your DS in class was trying for him. Remember teachers are responsible for educating ALL pupils in their classes and are held to account for this, so will find pupils who disrupt quite trying, particularly if parents don't accept there is a problem or minimise its impact in any way.

Students learn trigonometry and quadratic equation in primary school! Who knew?!

Warmth and boundaries…

Dangerous Alchemy your decision that your 'loud, funny, confident sometimes annoying' child who couldn't sit still and listen was being picked on is exactly the problem. Parents are unable to accept that their child is pissing about. Perhaps the teacher wasn't picking on him. Perhaps he was distracting others and preventing the teacher from teaching the class. I am not sure being loud, funny and annoying is that helpful in a classroom.

Why are you more worried about what the teachers think?

You would be better focusing on your dd behaviour, are you disciplining her? Are you supporting her? Is there reasons for the decline, bullying mh etc

I'd be wondering about friendships and hormones. I'd want you to find a way of disciplining her that works. Being supportive of the school is very much appreciated, I'm getting sick of parents who argue back and assume that their child is perfect.

@plsbequiet I agree about this nightmare of a parent!

@hitherandhither I also live in a similar culture, and a large consensus is placed on how to behave in a formal setting, which the classroom is. Of course, we have fun and there is a lot of laughter, but there is also a lot of productivity and a focus on respect for others in our community.

Reading the comments from the other poster makes me feel exceptionally sorry for their child. We are all our DC's advocates, but support takes many different forms as we guide them through the nuances of life, across all cultures and societies, from the behavioral foundations that are set in the family settings.

As a secondary teacher, I don’t think staff automatically blame parents. It sounds like fairly typical teen behaviour that probably isn’t that typical at a grammar school. I’m sure they genuinely want to help, and most teachers know it’s a phase. By the time they hit year 11 they are usually more mature and often quite embarrassed by their previous surly behaviour. I think where it gets frustrating from a schools perspective is when the parents believe their child can do no wrong and that the school is to blame, not working hard enough for their precious angel. This fosters a lack of accountability for the child that is really unhelpful. This doesn’t sound like you so I really wouldn’t worry. Work with the school, they will want her to succeed. Good luck OP, from my experience of thousands of teenagers, she’ll grow out of it.

This is the sort of approach that leads to out of control kids. And yes, it is down to the parents.

I have taught for 20 years and my first thought is not the parents. It’s probably not my 2nd either. I think there is a reason in school and/or the behaviour is a communication of feeling.
I sometimes work with the youngest children and we have seen a decline in behaviour. I do think there is starting to be a massive difference between parenting strategies at home and behaviour policies at school. Schools are becoming stricter and there is a rise in “gentle parenting”. It’s not either of the theories/techniques themselves, but the massive contrast, which makes settling into a school environment much harder for some EYFS children.

No. My immediate response would be to look at her well being as she is most likely struggling with self in some way, hormones, friends, moods, pressure, it's v v hard at that age. She needs to know you are her sanctuary, spend time with her doing v easy, non pressure things like eating lunch, going for a drive. The car is a great place to get teens talking. She could be worried about something, just be there for her.

@Stressey I could have written your post and I am a teacher! I have taught in secondary schools and now work in primary and my daughter in Year 9 is displaying similar behaviour to yours. I’d like to think in this day and age that nobody would judge you as parenting teenagers is hard!

My eldest daughter (year 11) is at a different grammar school, works hard, is polite and is doing really well. I don’t think that makes it any easier for my younger one and she can display low level disruptive behaviour in school. Any teacher knows Year 8 & 9 is a difficult time due to hormones and often a time when friendship groups etc can change.

Some of the things we think are affecting my daughter and could be causing her behaviour are: friendship issues, she has had a difficult time with friendships; low self esteem, not thinking she’s good enough, as obviously she is at school with a lot of academically bright children.

Some of the things we are doing to try and help her and to address the behaviour are: an open and honest dialogue with her head of year, I found it really helpful going into school to try and see if both us as parents and her teachers can try to help her manage some of the emotions behind her behaviour; identifying people she can talk to at school and at home when she feels overwhelmed or frustrated, which seem to be the emotions behind her negative behaviour; just being there and knowing she can talk to you - checking in regularly and just letting her talk if she wants to, but also not forcing her if she doesn’t.

We found taking her phone was not helpful at all. It meant she felt isolated and lonely as teenagers now communicate differently with each other, always through the phone, so this only added to her anger and frustration and negative behaviour. I do though talk to her about her phone (and check it with her consent if I feel I need to), ask her what she is doing and whether she is receiving (or sending) unpleasant messages as if I thought bullying through the phone was adding to her behaviour, I would think again.

I hope some of this is helpful. Good luck xx

I understand as I feel the same about being judged by the school but actually I think me supporting the school unquestioningly because I Wanted to look like a better parent has made things worse. My son has diagnosed ADHD, he was diagnosed before secondary and a set of recommendations from ed psych, and it has taken until year 9 before I have had one single conversation with a SENCO. The school operate a very structured discipline framework, and there is no deviation from it in any circumstances. Most of the children supported in the respite hub which is meant to help SEN are being bullied or have social issues, and not much in the way of behavioural challenges, so they find my son hard work there because all of the other kids are quiet and well behaved - the SENCO told me this! I have unfortunately had to really reflect on supporting the school as default.

Can she handle the pressure at grammar school have you considered putting her into another school. She won't get through GCSE if she's unhappy and snapping at everyone.

Absolutely this. How is this ‘character’ going to cope when bored in a meeting at work? While waiting for a train? Everyone needs to learn to regulate their emotions in order to coexist with others and be a productive member of society.

I would predict that some teachers will blame you and others won’t. Many teachers will reserve judgement until speaking to you but some will continue to blame you even if you are supportive, saying that you are just going through the motions and making the right noises, but really you are weak, chaotic and clueless. My advice is not to give a second thought to what these people think because it says more about them than it does about you. Just do your best for your daughter.

I used to think that. But now I have my own child with behavioural issues and I have learned a very difficult but important lesson!

Perfect example of why teachers and other professionals will say “It’s the parents!”

This poster reminds me of the time a child pulled another to the floor in a headlock. The parents reply was “yeah, but who started it?” I’m judging them immediately and completely understanding where the issue is.

Totally agree!
attitudes similar to @JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything are one of the main reasons there’s a recruitment crisis! Teachers are busy, if we have to speak to you about your child’s behaviour then there is a problem.

It depends on the child, the one who said, "When you start paying for my phone you can ask for it" seemed to be parroting a parent.

I do wonder about schools veering too far in one direction and parents in the other.

A lot of secondary schools in particular nowadays seem to have a 'zero tolerance' policy which means that students are given detention for minor things like forgetting a pen/pencil or being a couple of minutes late. I hear students talking a lot (we often take the bus in the morning alongside secondary school kids) about how there is no point rushing as they're already late (often due to public transport issues so outside their control) and so already in detention.

When I was at senior school, being late earned you the evil eye from the teacher and a sarcastic comment about how pleased they were that you had deigned to join the class. Detentions were reserved for serious misdemeanours and were considered really shameful - you'd do anything to avoid them. And even though neuro-diversity was woefully under-recognised back then, teachers were often tolerant of individual student 'eccentricities' and sometimes made allowances for individual students who would otherwise have struggled to cope in a way that the system doesn't seem to allow for nowadays.

Absolutely agree with this. The big crackdown on behaviour I believe is having the opposite effect. Detentions mean nothing when they are so frequent and for incidents such as a forgotten pencil or a lost tie. When I was at school it was nothing like this, a lot of kids still forgot to bring books, pens and items of uniform but you had words from the teacher rather than constant detentions/isolations. Save detentions for more serious incidents and kids and parents will take them more seriously.

I also don’t agree with sitting a child in isolation in complete silence for 7 hours. If you did that to someone in the workplace or even prison it would probably be against their human rights! Suspend them at home instead and let the parents deal with the consequences of having to miss work.

It’s all to do with how schools look on paper these days, grades and attendance. I feel sorry for the teachers having so many government targets and not being able to teach to individuals rather than everyone being forced to be academic when they aren’t.