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Secondary education

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Original poster

Discipline in school

120 replies

Doggertydog · 22/06/2023 22:37

I've noticed my dc school quite often use a kind of exagerated fear factor in doling out consequences for behaviour. I'm all for my dc being pulled up if their behaviour is out of line, and 100% support it, but I'm not sure I like their way of dealing with it. Hoping for some thoughts.

I don't want to out myself with too much detail, but dc behaviour at home and with friends etc is good, in fact we seem pretty lucky in that department! Just normal teen things really.

DS12 has been pulled up on some cheeky/rude behaviour at school and quite rightly so. However he was really upset and told me the teacher shouted at him (he actually said screamed) and told them to expect quite a severe punishment. I was expecting a call to be asked to go in tbh, and that there must have been more to what he had told me happened. But it turns out no more was said and he just got a detention, which is proportionate, so that's fine.

But is this a common tactic? To put the fear of god into them? We've experienced a bit of this with another dc too. Feels out of order but not sure quite how to handle. Doesn't seem a good way to gain respect for authority to me.

OP posts:
MisschiefMaker · 23/06/2023 00:02

Your DC was rude to a teacher and the teacher "screamed" at him? Im guessing it was a simply a female teacher that shouted, which to him is screaming but would have been considered shouting if a male teacher did that. I think that's ok for him to be shouted at. I wouldn't undermine the teacher by making a fuss in this instance. If your DC is upset I'd probably say something along the lines of "well you can't control how other people react to you, if you're rude to them that's the risk you take."

CherryBlossom321 · 23/06/2023 00:12

Seems to be a common control tactic in schools. It’s extremely unhelpful and shows a lack of professionalism.

themidimit · 23/06/2023 00:40

CherryBlossom321 · 23/06/2023 00:12

Seems to be a common control tactic in schools. It’s extremely unhelpful and shows a lack of professionalism.

🙄

Original poster
Doggertydog · 23/06/2023 07:26

Actually @MisschiefMaker it was a male teacher! DS knows what he did was wrong, I'm just not sure he's come away with the right lesson. He could see it was disproportionate and I worry he now has less respect for this teacher/school than he did to start with. Instead of reflecting on what he did and why this was wrong and making amends, his attention turned to feeling injustice. He wasn't even asked to apologise to the person he was rude to, which feels all kinds of wrong!

OP posts:
wildfirewonder · 23/06/2023 07:31

Teachers are under more stress than ever, and some are pretty close to the edge. Shouting is not ideal but also it sounds like the teacher was not personally rude so it doesn't seem very concerning.

What specifically did your ds say?

If you really felt the teacher was out of order you can say something - I did when my child was once punished for not being fast enough in PE Hmm - but if your child was rude you are on shaky ground.

wildfirewonder · 23/06/2023 07:33

Also, kids do feel less respect for some teachers, that's ok. I think you need to focus on your child's actions, rather than the teacher's reactions. I think your child is pulling your strings.

WhenIWasAFieldMyself · 23/06/2023 07:33

Did you make an appointment to ask the teacher what happened?

What was the context of your son being told off?

toomuchlaundry · 23/06/2023 07:36

Is it just this particular teacher?

froomeonthebroom · 23/06/2023 07:36

Perhaps you could help him to 'reflect on what he did and make amends'? Why do school have to do everything? You should be teaching your child not to be rude and cheeky and then perhaps teachers won't 'scream at him.

Quiverer · 23/06/2023 07:56

There are some schools that seem to go in for a tactic of really shouting at children over minor infringements to try to scare all the others into behaving - I think it's called "Flattening the Grass". Seems to me a fairly dreadful example to set.

lalalalalalaleeee · 23/06/2023 08:13

wildfirewonder · 23/06/2023 07:31

Teachers are under more stress than ever, and some are pretty close to the edge. Shouting is not ideal but also it sounds like the teacher was not personally rude so it doesn't seem very concerning.

What specifically did your ds say?

If you really felt the teacher was out of order you can say something - I did when my child was once punished for not being fast enough in PE Hmm - but if your child was rude you are on shaky ground.

So we have to accept teachers shouting at children because they are 'more stressed than ever'? Nope

JudysGardenClub · 23/06/2023 08:18

Detention isn't the first port of call for punishments in my son's school for classroom behaviour, they get verbal warnings, then verbal plus written which escalates but goes onto supported plans put in place. Detentions are for serious displays of bad behaviour. You are only going off what your son has told you and the teacher may have a very different perspective on the matter. I would be looking up the behaviour policy online or in your son's planner to see what detentions are handed out for. Also the planner should have written details as to why they are in detention. Contact the teacher and get their side of it.

I would be taking this opportunity to explain how draining low level disruption is for teachers and they are just trying to do their job which is teaching but they get dragged down into behaviour management in class because of children like your son.

Original poster
Doggertydog · 23/06/2023 08:25

Thanks all. I had asked to speak to someone before this as his behaviour at school seems to have dropped off recently - more lack of homework/lateness etc but not rudeness like this, which is out of character. Got no reply then, but I will follow up. His behaviour at home is good, so I'm not sure what's going on, although his dad and I are a tag team in being away at the moment, so not sure if it's connected.

This "flattening the grass" mentioned above seems to be the school approach. Feels very old fashioned to me and behaviour in the school in general is not good. But yes, am on shaky ground as he was rude! I'd like more of a home/school team approach to behaviour, rather than shout and scare and no communication!

OP posts:
WhenIWasAFieldMyself · 23/06/2023 09:32

Agree with pp that detention is rarely a consequence for a one off incident when a student has been told off.

Without you knowing the full context it's difficult to say whether the detention was appropriate or not, and also not knowing the school's behaviour policy.

Ours is clearly laid out and put on the electronic register to be signed by both parents and students at the beginning of each year.

Obviously, each school is different but ours has 3 strikes of written "disciplinary" notes (all visible to the parents on the ER) before a detention kicks in. (Most of the time the notes are "generic" rather than disciplinary and would include things like first time they go walkabouts instead of coming straight back from the loo, first time they answer back, first time they're caught using their phone etc.) It's quite rare for an actual D note to be used (I've given 3 in 10 years, 2 to the same student on the same day)

I would definitely follow up your request to speak to someone though, as a direct detention suggests that it was something pretty serious.

Original poster
Doggertydog · 23/06/2023 12:19

Thank you @WhenIWasAFieldMyself I will explore all of this. Much appreciated.

OP posts:
cansu · 23/06/2023 19:06

Try dealing with multiple cheeky and disrespectful kids. Try going from that to kids trying to fight other kids with you standing in the middle. Maybe just tell your kid to behave. Interesting how you have decided to focus on how your child feels about the way he was told off rather than the fact that he was rude and a PITA.

FrippEnos · 23/06/2023 19:24

Some of the responses to this thread are great examples of why teachers are leaving.

sunnydaytoday0 · 23/06/2023 21:19

He wasn't even asked to apologise to the person he was rude to

You do know your DS can still apologise to the person to whom he was cheeky/rude without being asked first?

Plumbear2 · 24/06/2023 08:52

It sounds like the teacher was just saying it like it is. Your child was being out of order and the teacher told him off, more than likely your child thought he was wrong but it was properly the first time someone had told him no. I'm sick of the amount of times my child's class has been disrupted in the way you describe your son did, it's about time we someone put these kids in their place. It's disruptes the teacher and every other student. Also your child is in high school, he knows full well how to apologise without being asked first. Talk to your son, make him realise his behaviour was wrong.

usernother · 24/06/2023 08:55

One thing that I know happens is pupils greatly exaggerate what actually happens when they are told off because they know they are in trouble and are worried about parents being contacted. I'd never automatically believe my child.

howshouldibehave · 24/06/2023 08:58

It sounds like your child was being rude and the teacher raised their voice.

Sherrystrull · 24/06/2023 09:00

CherryBlossom321 · 23/06/2023 00:12

Seems to be a common control tactic in schools. It’s extremely unhelpful and shows a lack of professionalism.

Disciplining a rude child? What would you suggest as an alternative?

Sherrystrull · 24/06/2023 09:01

Doggertydog · 23/06/2023 07:26

Actually @MisschiefMaker it was a male teacher! DS knows what he did was wrong, I'm just not sure he's come away with the right lesson. He could see it was disproportionate and I worry he now has less respect for this teacher/school than he did to start with. Instead of reflecting on what he did and why this was wrong and making amends, his attention turned to feeling injustice. He wasn't even asked to apologise to the person he was rude to, which feels all kinds of wrong!

You do realise that it's actually your responsibility to teach your child right from wrong?

Circethemagician · 24/06/2023 09:07

Our school only gives detentions after fair warning eg if the child has been asked not to do something a number of times but repeats the action. They are not given out for one-off low level behaviour - so if that’s the policy your school has too, it’s likely your child was being repeatedly rude/disrespectful.

Also you mention your DS being late and not handing homework in - why are you letting him get away with this? Being late is also very disruptive to a class.

I would be looking at why your DS thinks it’s ok to be rude to a teacher like that. Where has he picked that behaviour up from? In my experience most kids who lack respect for teachers have picked it up from home because of hearing their parents bad-mouth the school.

converseandjeans · 24/06/2023 09:13

Agree with @FrippEnos

Some of the responses to this thread are great examples of why teachers are leaving.

OP you admit your son was rude. What did he say/do? Also when challenged was he smirking or was he immediately sorry?

Teachers are just fed up now of this nonsense & are leaving because it's exhausting. Try backing the school up.