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Secondary education

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Original poster

Salary to consider private

202 replies

Duckyneedsaclean · 31/03/2023 15:10

Just wondering at what take home salary you would consider/be able to pay for a private school place?

We were hoping for a bursary but not been granted one - trying to figure out if we can afford full fees.

OP posts:
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5
Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 18:37

@ReneeX because they are?! You think they don't get a leaflet saying 3-6 months?? Just gtfo out here with this bs. I'm glad you've had support. You are the lucky ones.

ReneeX · 04/04/2023 18:42

>Don't patronise me.

For a person who allegedly works in SEN you are strangely sensitive in a normal conversation. Nobody is patronising you. It is yiu who is patronising while saying that I am naive. I'm surprised that you said it doesn't take 12 months. It does and it is stated on paper. SEN person normally is aware of this things.

I come from a country where access to SEN is even worse and what I experience here is excellent assistance. Every morning when I leave to school I see the disabled child of newly arrived to the country Ukrainian mum. The council bus is taking the child to special school that was very quickly arranged for that kid. Bless the system. And if it is down to the county, bless my borough. It is not like that in many other European countries

ReneeX · 04/04/2023 18:47

@Dodgeitornot
>You think they don't get a leaflet saying 3-6 months
^^
Clearly they don't because the leaflet doesn't say 3-6 months but as I clearly stated 3-6 + 1 year minimum . And SEN worker should know it

Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 18:47

@ReneeX It is not a normal conversation. You have generalised your very limited experience to the provision available in the UK as a whole. You said earlier how great it is, how you're just waiting for 12 months and are able to get your child a dyspraxia assessment. All the while you're in one of the least populated and wealthiest boroughs. Don't you think that might have something to do with it? Your experience is not representative of the situation with SEN in the UK.
I am very angry at you because I work in SEN and see the reality of it. I don't appreciate you minimising it because you had your referral accepted and saw a refugee child get into a special school.

Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 18:49

@ReneeX what's an SEN worker?

ReneeX · 04/04/2023 18:58

@Dodgeitornot

>least populated
Hmm...
http://www.citypopulation.de/en/uk/greaterlondon/

>wealthiest boroughs.
Hmm...
https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/londons-richest-poorest-boroughs-average-23380005

Not really, just famous for its beauty and architecture ...
Because I am happy that I got the referral at all and I will not need to spend 1 k for assesment from my pocket. And in most countries people do. I am just saying people in most of European countries, with the exception of few ... don't have it.
Of course things could be better but that disabled child who has better social situation than she had in Ukraine before the war is delighted. I even spoke with her mum about it. WeI am gladly paying taxes when I see how it is used in the instance of thay kid. We should learn to appreciate what we have instead of just complain. I wish you all the best. Have a good evening.

Greater London (United Kingdom): Boroughs - Population Statistics, Charts and Map

Greater London (United Kingdom): Boroughs with population statistics, charts and maps.

http://www.citypopulation.de/en/uk/greaterlondon

Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 19:00

@ReneeX I never said your borough IS the least populated. I said one of. You're right to be grateful, you've received better service than many kids in this country could dream of. Your experience is not the norm. It is the exception. The situation with SEN in this country is dire.

Pootle40 · 04/04/2023 19:06

We have a joint income of £150k with a £950 mortgage. We considered it but realised every month there would be not a lot else left and no nice holidays. We both put £1k into pensions every month so we'd have to potentially reduce that to make it work.

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 19:08

the reason the children have higher IQs at private primary schools is not due to selection but because it's in their genes as they generally have brighter (hence better paid) parents.

You can't be serious. You think it's... genetics?! 🙈

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 19:10

We're putting our two kids into private prep school on a join salary of £120k, with a large mortgage, BUT we get a 50% discount as we work for the linked private senior school, so it's basically the equivalent of 1 child we're paying for. Will still feel the pinch but very doable. Will top up our annual holiday fund with exam marking etc!

Dyslexicwonder · 04/04/2023 19:16

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 19:08

the reason the children have higher IQs at private primary schools is not due to selection but because it's in their genes as they generally have brighter (hence better paid) parents.

You can't be serious. You think it's... genetics?! 🙈

Is this sarcastic?

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 19:18

...is this...?

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 19:24

@ReneeX I've not mentioned housing or mortgages, I don't know why you keep mentioning it...

The SEN assessment process for getting educational support is run by the local council. Both schools and Local Councils who fund SEN support are under huge financial pressure meaning that the process doesn't run as its documented to.

I don't know how I can make the point any clearer.

pbdr · 04/04/2023 19:28

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 19:18

...is this...?

To be able to afford private school you either need to have come into a windfall (so just luck) or you need to be very high earners. High earners are typically successful professionals or entrepreneurs who do challenging jobs that most people can't do, and so are paid accordingly. Of course there are exceptions to every rule (Joey Essex could easily afford to send any children of his to private school), but that's the general trend. Intelligence is largely heritable, so it would make sense that successful professionals (who are typically of above average intelligence) would on average have more intelligent children.

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 19:34

Luckydip1 · 04/04/2023 18:32

@User534 the reason the children have higher IQs at private primary schools is not due to selection but because it's in their genes as they generally have brighter (hence better paid) parents.

Not really. Children from low income and high income households start out with relatively similar IQs (6 point gap) which increases to 18 points over time due to the environmental impact on IQ.

This has been demonstrated via adaption studies, twin studies, etc etc.

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 19:39

My point being that on average high earners do have higher IQs but not because they are genetically superior. The spread is both a decline in the average IQ of lower income children as they get older and an increase in higher income children widening the gap.

EggBlanket · 04/04/2023 19:42

Duckyneedsaclean · 31/03/2023 16:06

For context, our mortgage is about a third of our net income, the fees would be equivalent to a sixth of net income. Leaving half - but we're a family of 7.

We don't have any savings as just bought our first home.

Child is the eldest, but second will go to a special school and the next is in year 1 so a long time till they'd go to secondary.

I don’t think you can send just one child to private. But the time the others are secondary age, will you be able to afford the same for them?

Also consider that the school fees can be increased dramatically at any time. I know someone who’s fees have just been increased by 40%!

Luckydip1 · 04/04/2023 19:52

@MomFromSE intelligence has been shown to be highly heritable.

Luckydip1 · 04/04/2023 19:54

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritabilityoff_IQ

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 19:56

It is highly heritable.

That doesn't negate the fact that its expression is impacted by environmental factors which has been proved over and over again.

Think of height which is more heritable than IQ. Environmental factors substantially impact height like childhood nutrition. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 19:56

@Luckydip1 my response was for you

Luckydip1 · 04/04/2023 19:58

I don't disagree, my point is that the average child at private primary school has a higher IQ than the average child at a state primary school because intelligence is highly heritable.

surreygirl1987 · 04/04/2023 20:13

My point being that on average high earners do have higher IQs but not because they are genetically superior. The spread is both a decline in the average IQ of lower income children as they get older and an increase in higher income children widening the gap.

Exactly. I have a PhD in education and have actually studied this and you are spot on - so many people think that their kids' intelligence is down to genetics rather than being a huge range of factors, including social class... the mind boggles that this is actually still believed by some. I wrote about this in my thesis actually and my supervisor was also in despair that some people still think this.

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 20:14

@Luckydip1 , not that's not what the science says at all. The average rich child (in any school) has a higher IQ by the end of primary school because on average they are able to fully achieve their intellectual potential based on their environment. The majority of the rich / poor IQ gap isn't genetically based.

It's like saying people who are rich are taller because height is genetic when comparing them to poor people lacking in basic nutrition.

I suggest you read the links below which might be able to express the point better than I can. The situation is far more complex and nuanced than you are presenting it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4403216/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088505/

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2013/08/29/poor-concentration-poverty-reduces-brainpower-needed-navigating-other-areas-life

https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/spring-2013/schooling-makes-you-smarter

Family environment and the malleability of cognitive ability: A Swedish national home-reared and adopted-away cosibling control study

Individual differences in cognitive ability result from a complex admixture of genetic and environmental influences. Adopted children are one way to estimate the degree of malleability of cognitive ability in response to environmental change in the con...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4403216/

MomFromSE · 04/04/2023 20:22

@surreygirl1987 I think its the nuance between something being highly heritable but subject to environmental factors for full genetic potential to be expressed.

Either way, it creates a very disturbing narrative