GCSE Options - History or German?

[stickygotstuck]

DD is chosing her options and can't make up her mind between History and German.

Apart from Maths, Science and English, she's doing RSPE, Music, French & German. But she's considering swapping one of the languages for History.

Trouble is, she really likes French but I think German will be more useful in the long run (thinking really far ahead, if she wants to work in Europe eventually!)
In her place, I'd do German and History. But I don't want to influence her too much because she loves French, and prefers it to German.

The annoying thing is, initially Music was just her 'reserve' choice but now she's firmly decided on it, so either German/French or History will need to be bumped off the list. She already plays two instruments and working with groups should be good for her personal development - if hard (has ASC, so not a 'fun' subject as such IYSWIM).

Any opinions on what would be best? Workload, prospects, difficulty, usefulness of specific languages... anything you can tell me would help. She's going mad & driving us mad trying to decide!

If she already plays instruments to grade 5 standard or higher (and therefore also has grade 5 music theory), the school might let her enter for music without taking it as one of her timetabled subjects. Then she could do both German and History. She'd be way ahead of some of the other kids anyway (the ones who don't play instruments), and won't learn as much in music class.

I would bump history. It doesn’t have a great deal of value in later life unless you intend to specialise in it as a career. And it’s something that you tend to pick up from films and books, unlike languages.

Music will be really easy if she plays an instrument to a decent standard

great that she has the option for 2 MFLs but out of the two I’d encourage French over German. With French you can learn other Romance languages (eg Spanish which IMO is the most useful of the lot of them) much more easily . Nothing wrong with German but if she prefers French I would be happy with that.

Complete nonsense.

The skills gained from a history degree such as research, analysis and report writing are highly desirable in many careers and history is well known as a gateway into law for example. You simply aren't restricted to a career in history and nor can you assimilate those skills from watching a film nor book.

And no I don't have a history degree.

I would let her do the French over German if she loves it. If that is the case she would be more likely to be a better grade. Indeed if she decided to go on to do a MFL degree there is the chance to pick up a second language at a lower level then.

Unless she is going to do a degree in a language she won't be conversing with anyone with gcse French or German. Obvs she will be able to ask for a beer or where the loo is but she can look that up (like you can look up history facts).

History to me is key subject, they don't just study the facts, they look at different areas, it encourages a student to be inquisitive whereas a language you are just really rote learning at gcse. History is good for building essay skills which she may need depending on 'A' levels.

I would go for history too. Lots of transferable skills and an interesting subject if she is curious about the world.

Thank you for your replies.

Zacharina, she's currently studying for grade 5 flute now and hasn't done music theory yet so she'd need to attend lessons. School expects GCSE students to have private lessons and DD is thiniking of taking up the piano, so that's a possibility. Except I doubt we'd able to afford tuition for two instruments... That's for another day!

StillWantingADog, she already speaks Spanish hence my preference for German, a non-Romance language. It's a tough one.

SeasonFinale, I tend to agree that - contraty to Bladgoon 's opinion - History is important in the skills it teaches. But both DD and we are concerned that the curriculum is very narrow - no world history to speak of.

What you say about picking a language later is what I was thinking. Except I'd discourage DD from doing languages at Uni, I'm seeing them more as a great additional asset. So, for example, if you have some basic knowledge of German, you would be more confident to take up the chance to go work in the country for a while, or longer term.

cosmiccosmos, while I agree that History is important - I am firm believer that brexit would not have happened if it was taught properly in this country, but that's a different matter - I could not disagree more with your view on language learning. It most certainly is not learing by rote, any more than Maths or Music are learned by rote (although I know that's how it was taught in the past). Plus the culture, the understanding and the open-mindedness they foster

In fact, conversing (or reading!) is exactly what I'd expect her to do, more than studying Forein Languages. Ordering an orange juice, etc. she can do already 😉

Disclaimer: I am a linguist myself, and we partly picked DD's school based on the chance of doing two languages. But, although she has the ability I'd not want her to become a linguist as such. As I said, I see them as a very, very useful extra.

Thanks NappyValley. She definitely is curious about the world, but as I said (cross post) she's disappointed by the content - not a lot of 'world' in there, sadly. I suggested she did Geography instead for this very reason but she's not interested.

If she prefers French, she should do that over German.

the key thing is not to rule out anything she might want to do for a level. Otherwise, it doesn’t really matter for future prospects. A levels and FE more important.

One language imo is enough. I did French and German and got A* in both, then French at A-level. I can just about get through a very simple primary school level present tense conversation in French these days 15 years later and can read a bit, but my German GCSE hasn’t done me any favours at all and a couple of years ago I was in Berlin and effectively had no German at all.

There’s quite a lot of degree subjects that would be hard to access without a humanities subject, so for me, given she’s not taking Geography, I’d be voting for her to take History.

If she has an aptitude for languages there’s nothing to stop her picking up another in later life, I did a short course in Italian during lockdown and am considering doing a longer one or even a GCSE once the kids are a little older.

Good luck with your choice. :-)

We were advised to encourage dc to retain a creative subject as academic GCSEs can become quite a slog and its nice for them to have lessons they look forward to. Hence although your dd is ahead in music, I would encourage her to take that GCSE too.

I would advise her to take history instead of German.

You say she loves French so she should keep that one going, it's so important to have a bit of passion for what she is studying (likewise, music).

French is probably more useful than German for working in Europe, in my experience. Being able to speak French well also means she could pick up Spanish easily later on if she wanted.

And as SeasonFinale above says, the skills she will learn from studying history will be transferable to so many career options.

But honestly, for GCSEs, so long as she has the required subjects and a language, just concentrate on what she enjoys and what she is good at. Don't think too far ahead to career choices. Life is easily adapted later on.

Sorry, ignore my humanities comment, missed the RE one. I still think history’s more valuable but I missed it on the OP.

I'd take a step back and realise that you're using the word "I" quite a lot. I know you'll be meaning it for the best, but it is her decision and life and not yours. If she likes French, then let her learn French (and I speak as someone who hates French, lived in Germany and speak German).

If she's thinking of dropping German for History, then let her and encourage her. History is a very important subject which apart from letting you understand how we got "here" teaches you a lot of soft skills like comprehension and analysis. We looked at the curriculum and to me it looks dull as ditch water, but she seems to think it looks fun, especially the medical history and that's all that matters.

As for the music, if she is good at music, then taking the music GCSE is a no brainer. 60% of the GCSE is practical and the practical can be taken over and over again until it is perfect and then sent off. The technical aspect includes music comprehension and sounds like a lot of fun.

Source, my daughter has decided to take music, history, spanish, latin. I might have views on those choices, but its nothing to do with me. She is happy with them. She likes the subjects and that is the most important thing. Where she asked for advice we helped, but she chose and as long as she's happy and not putting herself under pressure than we are. Her currently chosen career will have no use for any of those subjects, but that's not important. :)

Most young Germans and Austrians speak really very good English and many international companies there use English to communicate so German is probably not as useful as you think.

Oh and my first paragraph is coming across a bit more aggressive sounding than I meant it to, so apologies for that. It wasn't my intention.

The practical music is not stressful if they play an instrument well but the composing is trickier than it sounds and can take some development so dangerous to do music off timetable unless you're already an accomplished composer.

@cosmiccosmos

Unless she is going to do a degree in a language she won't be conversing with anyone with gcse French or German. Obvs she will be able to ask for a beer or where the loo is but she can look that up (like you can look up history facts)

This is an outdated idea of MFL. It's so much harder now & they have to understand & use vocabulary on homelessness, divorce, environment, working abroad, health issues. It's really not just ordering a beer or asking where the toilet is.

What is RSPE? Is it religious studies? I would say that she would learn skills from English Lit & RS that would prepare her for essays & debating.

Does she not have to do either history or geography anyway? I would say history, music, French & German were a good mix.

It's so much harder to learn a language that the skills history gives you. German is way more useful in terms of future - we trade with Germany in automotive, pharmaceutical, food, tech, household goods. French would be less useful for a job later on. Spanish is even less useful but for some reason schools are replacing German with Spanish because it's easier.

Look at Goethe Institute on 'why study German'

What is RSPE? Religion philosophy and ethics?

If her long term goals might tend towards languages then a second one would be really valuable.

History is a great subject but all the "explain why"s don't play to my autistic child's strengths. For them, I think English and RS are enough to cover this discipline without adding History in as well. If course your daughter might be different, but if German comes easily to her and she is not that interested in the History content, I can't see a good reason to go choose History over German.

Of all the advice we've received from school, the one message that has really shone out is "let them choose what they are interested in". The (v minor) benefits of having studied German over French/history, if she ends up working in Europe in an environment that requires three languages, are outweighed by the benefits to her of doing a subject she'll enjoy and therefore do well at.

Does she have an idea of what she wants to do for A Level? As others have said, history is good for preparing for essay-writing/analysis type subjects. Many people who go on to do law have a history background, for instance.
Also, is she equally good at/ passionate about these subjects? At GCSE the grades tend to matter more than the particular subject choices when it comes to university entrance, so I'd say, go with her strengths and interests.

History by a mile. I don’t see the point of German, it’s not much use out of Germany annd Austria and most of them speak decent English. French is more widely spoken and is a big help in many of the Arab countries as well as in France and the French tend to speak much less English than the Germans.

re her interest in the world, I think this will come far more by what news/current affairs you follow as a family, and what the conversation is around the dinner table, than by what she learns at GCSE.

That said, I think RS is valuable in helping gain that global perspective. I don't know why it's not an Ebacc subject. But it is very well laught at my children's secular comp.

I loved history at school and college and would have taken my degree in it but in ignorance I thought that would mean it wouldn't be very useful in regards to a career after uni. There are so many careers that we didn't really get explained to us when I was at school, and my parents weren't really knowledgeable about, history is really not a dead end subject.

Of course, you can learn about anything outside of formal education, however I would say doing a language when young is an opportunity to be seized and if there is one she enjoys then to stick with that. She'll do better in it. She will be more capable of learning other languages after if she becomes bilingual when young. French is one of the official UN languages, it's still an official language or second taught in many countries in Africa, and is widely spoke in Europe.

Good luck to her!

History is a great GCSE for developing critical thinking, essay writing and I’d certainly consider doing it alongside a language (whichever she prefers) as opposed to two languages.