GCSE Options - History or German?

[stickygotstuck]

DD is chosing her options and can't make up her mind between History and German.

Apart from Maths, Science and English, she's doing RSPE, Music, French & German. But she's considering swapping one of the languages for History.

Trouble is, she really likes French but I think German will be more useful in the long run (thinking really far ahead, if she wants to work in Europe eventually!)
In her place, I'd do German and History. But I don't want to influence her too much because she loves French, and prefers it to German.

The annoying thing is, initially Music was just her 'reserve' choice but now she's firmly decided on it, so either German/French or History will need to be bumped off the list. She already plays two instruments and working with groups should be good for her personal development - if hard (has ASC, so not a 'fun' subject as such IYSWIM).

Any opinions on what would be best? Workload, prospects, difficulty, usefulness of specific languages... anything you can tell me would help. She's going mad & driving us mad trying to decide!

No, history is better for critical thinking that RS. Also it's pretty hard to do A level history without the GCSE.

You don't 'pick up" history from films and novels. History is a subject which requires much study and disciplined thought.

Thank you BasiliskStare. Not sure it would be that easy to just pick up, but it's certainly an interesting perspective.

Thank you clary for replying about the usefulness of RS.
And I see we are of the same mind when it comes to the 'disappearance' of German.

MadamAndTheAnts, my issue with the History curriculum is that is very narrow and British centred. No trace of world history. These are only GCSEs and I really think the should be as broad as possible - this is not broad at all.
DD's school is doing Medicine in Britain & The British sector of the Western Front; Anglo-Saxon and Norman England; and The USA, 1954-1975. Seems an odd (and narrow) selection. Crucially, DD doesn't think it's great either. I don't know how many times she's done Anglo-Saxon England between Primary and Secondary. Could do with something 'new'.

Thanks Notagardener, that's it, I do think RS (or rather 'Religion, Philosphy & Ethics') is very valuable, and certainly broader than History. I cannot see how you can study Philosophy or Religion without touching on a lot of World History.

Madam, depends on what you mean by 'useful' 😉. There is a lot of analysing, debating, cross-referencing, critical thinking (a huge amount) and essay writing in Philosophy alone. And the topics are certainly relevant to all human beings then and now, especially the Ethics ones. But then, similarly to Notagardener, I did study somewhere where Philosphy was considered a core subject.
But that is my experience having gone through secondary education in a different country. I do wonder how it's viewed by Universities for entrance purposes.

I have the feeling there is some confustion here between the compulsory, old 'RE' and the new, expanded 'RPE' GCSE curriculum, with a lot emphasis in Ethics and Philosphy. Although it is pretty 'new', properly taught it should be the ultimate in critical thinking. What can possibly require more critical thinking than Ethics?

She will probably find French much easier if she already speaks Spanish.

Music might not be as easy as you think. One third performance (1 solo and 1 ensemble) one third composition (ds spent ages on this) and 1 third exam which is not just music theory. My DS says being able to play piano is a big advantage. With flute she may not be as confident with things like chords. (At our school if you take gcse you get free peri lessons at school in your first instrument - I'm very glad!).

But really as long as she has the prerequisite subjects for her preferred a levels it really doesn't matter. Extra qualifications can be picked later in life if necessary.

Thanks, fruitpastille. You are so very lucky with the free peri lessons, am so jealous!
I actually don't think Music will be easy (and as I said, DD's specific circumstances could make it trickier than it should).

I don't want French to be easy, terrible mother that I am😁I just want her to learn a language or two. Personally, I find the interference between related languages an extra hindrance, if that makes sense.

Unfortunately, she has no idea yet about what she wants to do for A levels. It would be much simpler is she did!

Jesus- really? In that case, why go to school, just google anything you need to know.

OP
Let her do what she wants. As in, don’t force her to do German just because you think it’s sensible

Thanks, Dotcheck.
I won't, but she is going round in circles and needs to decide by the end of the week. Her anxiety is rising and we'll probably need to steer her - selfishly, I'd rather not. I don't want it to be my fault if she ends up hating her choices.

Ds did GCSE History & hated it, he loved Geography.

You sound anxious about this too.

Do decatastrophise this with her if you can. Most people will have a subject they like least, it's ok. Worst case is she has to show up to 2 lessons a week and do some homework in a subject she doesn't love, just like she's done successfully with all the subjects she currently dislikes and is about to drop. It's one tenth of her week, she'll be fine. And if she can't choose between them, there is no obvious bad option and she can't get it wrong.

That said, our eldest has found the volume in History quite overwhelming at times. They love it and are good at it, but we are steering autistic DC2 away. I think they'd survive it but it wouldn't help them thrive in KS4. "Big picture" questions, like how much History would add over and above RSPE, seem a bit theoretical and not the driving factor to me. Our eyes are more mundanely on getting through GCSEs with mental health intact.

We are in exactly the same boat! I am a linguist too. In the end I asked DS which subject he loved and he's gone for the second language (French and German here) over History.

I was about to post the same as fruitpastille- my dd is a flautist and has just started the first year of a three year gcse course- so year 9.

She’s not finding it easy. The performance is a doddle but it’s only 30 percent and composition is tough when you don’t play piano.

She has grade 5 theory- though to be fair has forgotten tons of stuff as she did it during lockdown so perhaps someone who studies it nearer the time might fare better- but i would say music is pretty time consuming.

Thanks Nat6999. Personally I think Geography sounds better, but not it's not up to me.

Thank you Chiasmi. I am anxious! She definitely needs a smaller load. DD is autistic, so as I'm sure you know her anxiety is not 'normal' anxiety, and what a slippery slope that can be. The very mention last year by school of having to choose options sent her into meltdown, we couldn't mention it for months.

Can I ask, how are you steering away your autistic DC from certain subjects? DD reached burnout in year 8 (just awful) and the very suggestion that you may think she's not up to something would feel like a huge blow, so we need to be careful.

Thank you clarrylove, that was DD's initial preference, but she's not so sure now. The looming deadline is stressful.

Thanks minisnowballs , it seems that Music is probably not such a great idea after all. Except asking DD to change course now at the last minute would be a challenge.

I have the horrible feeling it's going to come down to changing options a few weeks into the course. Really could do without that!

You’ve got the USA in there - always worth knowing a bit about. WW1 always includes international considerations. The Normans were French. The Saxons were Germanic.

I wouldn't change music if she wants to do it though!

DD2 loves it - she is having a fabulous time and wouldn't drop it for the world (even though she's having to do it after school)- just think that it needs to not be seen as an 'easy' option that you could pick up later...

I wouldn't fancy her picking up the A Level without the GCSE as someone advised, because of lack of composition skills for example.

Good luck with your choices!

@MadamAndTheAnts , thing is, speaking plainly as a non-brit if I may, 'international' here involves only the English-speaking bits of the world that were colonised/invaded by the Empire. If it din't come here or come form here, it didn't happen - not sure how 'international' that is, really. Mainstream news has had to up its game with the arrival of the Internet and all that, but I was always taken aback by the lack of a truly international pespective. I am very definitely not alone in that. I realise that's a very specific view, but I am talking specifically about my DD 😉I realise that's the way things are for her, but it's frustrating, I just feel very strongly that the content is not broad enough.

DH (British) is a real history enthusiast, loves it, it's his main hobby. He hadn't heard of at least 70% of what I did in my bog standard secondary school. He's had to learn it by himself in his spare time. Would have loved to in school. (Same with grammar, by the way)

There us no history gcse prerequisites for Alevel history ( that should tell you something)
She will learn essay writing and analysis in English lit ( and music I think)

Thank you minisnowballs !

Music was her reserve, in case there was a timetable clash or a subject didn't run. But it somehow became a firm yes. It may well have been because her Music teacher assumed she would when we spoke at parents' evening.

I don't think it will be easy. Trouble is, I am not sure if it will be enjoyable either due to DD's specific needs. Still, it's up to her and we don't want to confuse her further.

Ah, and right on cue, we just got an email from school, reminding us that the deadline to choose is looming. Cheers for that! No pressure... 😉

Thanks fUNNYfACE36 . You are not the first to say that, so I am feeling a bit easier about the fact that she could take up History later.

Let HER decide. Deep down I think she knows what she wants to choose but she’s got well meaning family members she’s trying to appease. I say this as someone who really really wanted to help my eldest decide and I’m SO glad he stood his ground and said “it’s my decision” repeatedly until the message sunk in. Yes, it was right to let him decide - because happy kids learn much more!

In the end he did choose history so I can share my opinion on that - he’s just finished studying Medieval Britain until today from a health point of view (much focus on disease and lifestyles of the people of all backgrounds and wealth). It was incredibly interesting. He’s now studying Vikings and they will then move onto going into World War I and II in greater depth than they had so far. Pros of history- extremely interesting and thought provoking, it’s good to know our history to better understand our present. They also learn excellent essay writing skills. Cons: as predicted it’s date heavy.

If your daughter is prone to mixing up the languages I wouldn’t encourage three for final exams. That’s a lot (and I say that as someone who studied 3 languages in school).

But again- she needs to choose what she thrives on in order to get the grades. Far better to thrive in something you don’t have much use for in your career than fail at something and have to build it up from scratch. The confidence knock alone from hating a subject! It will impact everything else like a domino effect.

My DS did History at GCSE. It wasn't his favourite subject (in fact it was one of his worst subjects in years 7 and 8 as he couldn't be bothered to learn facts etc), but he got a good teacher in year 9 who really piqued his interest and encouraged him to do it at GCSE (DS hoped/expected the same teacher!).

I don't recall him doing lots of learning or memorising facts etc - mostly they did lots of "comprehension" style questions/projects where they were given photos, illustrations, articles, etc and had to answer questions or write essays based on the "evidence" they were given. So, in effect, rather than "book reading/learning", they "learned" the content by answering questions which required them to read/examine pictures/articles. DS really took to it and got a 9 in his GCSE, and as I say, that was without any particular "learning facts" nor tests etc. A lot of the exams is about cause/consequence, why things happened, what led to what, analysing sources, etc.

I do think the days of "dry" learning of facts is long gone.

History. The pp who said it's no use later in life and you can pick it up from films couldn't be more wrong! It teaches critical thinking, comparison of information and extended explanations, as well as helping you understand why the world is the way it is.

GCSE choices are not massively limiting for either A-levels or beyond. At the end of the day what she enjoys and is good at will be the right choice, as long as there's some element from each of the major categories (science, humanities) and it's not one-track.

Languages are always useful. If she drops one of the languages, will she continue with the other outside of school?

I disagree with the PP that wrote of History as a useless subject. Most of the people I know in successful tech careers studied a humanities subject to degree level. History features strongly on their CVs. Doing 'essay' subjects at GCSE is a good foundation for later studies. Being able to structure an argument, work with evidence, and produce a coherent, grammatically correct piece of work is always going to be a useful and in-demand skill.

Is there no way she would consider dropping music? I did it for GCSE and A-level and to be honest, if she’s already playing instruments, it’s a completely zero value-add subject with a HUGE workload and, if it’s anything like my school, ridiculous expectations on you (I was having to lead sectional rehearsals for concerts when I was only in year 11)

In terms of usefulness and prospects, of the four subjects, music falls well short.

Thanks Badbadbunny for relating your son's experience. The teacher can make a huge difference, which is a double edge sword. Loves this one, detested the previous one, may get that one again!

Thank you Vallmo47 . Thanks for explaining how it's worked out for your son.
DD knows it's her choice, but is asking us for advice - so I'm asking MN. Decison paralysis is an issue with her and she simply needs more input than other kids - even if just to say, go away, I'll do what I want in the end. As I said, I (cowardly) don't want to be held responsible!

Thanks Squirrelsnut , I tend to agree.

Tahnk you, DogInATent . Agree about History being useful. And thanks for reminding me of this - GCSE choices are not massively limiting for either A-levels or beyond.