SW London Private and Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (part V)

[QuiteAJourney]

Following from our previous threads, including the latest (link below) www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4723610-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023?page=40

Looking forward to continuing the journey together

No email or post here. Presume the emails were a yes and everyone else still waiting?

Got it. Wait list here. Tbh what I was expecting.

Our state school is a year behind. It is true. We had to get a tutor to fill the gaps for math and do some Atom learning. All the dc have to do some sort of prep to pass the exams. It would be extremely rare for a dc not to prep for the exams at all. And our my dd state school she said the repeat a lot of what they have learned.

Just got out waitlist email too

The email didn’t fill me with hope. No personalisation or idea of where we are on the waiting list. Too early to ring?

I would agree that State (where DD is) are far more focussed on the basics and on getting the less able kids up to a standard that then reflects well in their SATs, which is the primary focus of Y6 teaching. That is important for the school, if not the actual kids.

Where DD is, she's not learned anything new really in maths for several years and is bored out of her mind most of the time. She's lucky that recently she's had a great teacher who gives her "stretch" work and the 11 plus tutoring she had got her up to scratch and on a level playing field. Without that, she would not be.

It's not that the teaching is worse, it's simply different priorities. As someone else said below, for the prep school kids who we know, many of them basically finished the curriculum in y5 and spend y6 focussing on 11 plus prep (not all, but certainly vast majority). Whereas in State it is not considered in any way their job or responsibility to coach 11 plus (as why should it, when most kids won't even sit one. My DD is the only kid in the entire of her two form entry school who sat a private school exam, and only 3 or 4 sat Grammar exam.).

Thank you.

For LEH, it definitely has more to offer in terms of the school resources, financially we will be extremely stretched though it's not impossible.

Tiffin's Girls is free and the school does seem to be doing progressingly well in all fronts including pastoral care (from hearsay). So we definitely will wait till 1 March...

I wonder if any parents would have two daughters studying in both schools before and are able to share their real experience.

You do need to prep with a tutor for state secondary to get familiar with exams and the types of Maths questions they will confront. But that is all. The prep school students are getting tutors anyway most of the time. The Maths at state primary covers everything and then it is just exam practice that's needed. Prep schools are way overrated.

While the teaching will depend from state school to state school, my point was not that the teaching at state and private is the same but that state school children entering academically selective schools will not be behind their private school peers given they've had to pass the same exams to get there.

Sorry about your WL but the list will definitely move, write them and tell them how keen you are.

And I agree about the unfortunate drilling and focus on prep for the Sats in year 6 which is why we've opted for a secondary that starts in year 6

Ah yes, I agree with this. My dd prepared for the 11+ so closed the gaps needed.

Yes, this is so boring for my dd who already gets perfect scores for SATs mocks they do at school.

Already done :) I only live round the corner so I might go and camp outside!

Different strokes. It depends on where you see the value add and if it is worthwhile. I definitely agree you can do all the 11+ yourself on top of a state primary education. I will never disagree with you on that. My point is that it's reductive to put it simply in terms of Maths and English.

We've come out the end of this experience (well... the end is tomorrow hopefully but still...) thinking that we probably could have done the academics side ourselves at state, it would definitely have been cheaper!

But the support we've received from the school, even the simple fact that all of DS's friends are going through the journey together is a huge factor. The biggest thing though is DS's experience, within two terms he loved the school. His descriptions were that his previous school was always "boring" and now, even though the prep is "still school", there is always something to look forward to. He's massively developed his confidence, now performs upwards of 10 times a year in front of a public audience through the school and values learning more than he did before.

Is that worth £14k a year and the risk of him becoming a self-entitled brat? Everyone will have their own take, for us right now it is a yes, but ask me again later as I'll probably change my mind on it every 10 years.

@drizzledon Yes that's fair enough I think!

@Ernern Tiffin is what we are hoping for too. Never mind the wait until this week, March 1st seems absolutely ENDLESS wait no!?

@SamPoodle123 Ditto with the SAT top marks. I had to laugh when her last report had her in "at expected standard" rather than "exceeds expectations" when she literally gets 100% for every maths and arithmetic test... Again it's the school state system isn't it? Have to show improvement, so it's no good being there already...!

@GQ22 Ah in this bit I think is the main difference:

"But the support we've received from the school, even the simple fact that all of DS's friends are going through the journey together is a huge factor."

At state primary there is absolutely no support whatsoever from the school. In fact almost active resistance in our case (to missing a bit of school here and there to sit exams etc). And no one to compare notes with. But that's not really an issue going forward, just for the meantime.

I think that's a fair post. I only mentioned the maths because I think that was mentioned in the earlier posts. My DS has also been very happy at his school and they have a rich and broad extra-curricula offering but can't match the facilities or some of the provision of prep schools. He's been bored in maths since year 4 since there is a lot of repetition, but he's continued to love many of the other subjects like history and the various special projects they do from time to time. Just like with secondary, unfortunately the state primary experience is quite dependent on the individual school. We're switching to private for secondary now and I frequently question if it's worth it - I hope so because it is a lot of money! Whether it is or not, I expect I will convince myself that it is because the thought of throwing away close on £200k is too unbearable (or twice that once you add his sibling 😅)

Feeling a bit despondent tbh. After Putney and LEH waitlist think it’s highly unlikely we will get WHS or Tiffins.

@Gumps I will call for feedback later today.

I know I need to get a grip as we do have Surbiton but still feel a bit sad to let her down.

We do really like Surbiton. I suppose it’s just not nice to get a no….

Leh waitlist here too! Hopefully things will move a lot after the Tiffin results.

@Pleasegrowmore that was the straw that broke the camels back for us really. Midway through Y4 we were thinking about secondary schools and tutoring, were finding that the stuff DS was getting from school (during lockdown) was way below what he could actually do. We asked our teacher what we could do and he effectively said there are no options, no routes, the school will not support DS and will not even give a report to a private secondary. It wasn't malicious, it's just that they didn't have resources for it.

Prep schools by definition are to prepare children for entrance exams to selective secondary schools that admit students based on the results of the 11+ (or 13+) exams.

State primary schools do not prepare children for any entrance exam. The teacher in state school focus on SAT preparation , with specific emphasis on leveling up those less academic students, who won't typically do 11+.

In state school, it is the parents and DCs who wants take part in 11+ exam do the preparation outside school curriculum and school times. With the same entrance exam and same selection criteria for both prep and state school students. I can't see why state school students admitted to grammar or private selective school will fall behind in levels of maths or English compared to prep school students.

However, I do hear some cases in through private school, the junior school student who don't have to participate in 11+ exam have some catch up work to do in year 7 compared to the cohort that entered via 11+ process.

@drizzledon definitely agree the experience is dependent on the individual school! I'd argue that's for private too, difference is you get choice.

And I can't look at the final figures we pay for our children too much, I need to be able to sleep at night 😂

@Taurus23

I’m sending you supportive vibes across the ether, please don’t be despondent. You have an offer in the bag and the WL WILL move.

WLs don’t mean no - not as nice as an offer I know, but your DD DID through the selection criteria. You did not let her down in any way.

Still WH to go and then Tiffin. Great thing about Tiffin is that it’s a completely separate process so everything to play for.

P.S. I’d like to comment that this is my first ‘involved’ experience on MN and whilst the vast majority of the posters have been hugely supportive of each other, I have found the posts of 1 or 2 regular posters quite astounding and ridiculous. They really mustn’t have anything better to do.