rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

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DC is currently in yr 2 in a local London primary and all our local secondary options are quite rubbish. Contemplating whether it's worth moving - but with things as they are - not really the right time interest rate/house prices wise. I guess our dilemma is not unusual for London - we are only in the catchment of one single sex school that is really not very good. Not sure that DC would pass an entrance exam for the local private schools - that have become incredibly competitive of late. For those who decided to stay or move - do you think it was worth it either way?

Not very helpful but I moved away from the UK entirely. In Europe now and much happier about schools. My DC had no chance of a decent education had we stayed there.

Where do you live OP?

Not me personally but in my area ( west Kent) there are are many people who move out of London for their children’s education. It’s a bit of gamble because of the 11 plus but there are also private schools which are less competitive than London independents.

You have years until secondary.
Schools seem to go in cycles of good/bad. I have local schools that were top of league tables/over subscribed/fantastic exam results 10 years ago and are now "requires improvement" dreadful places that everyone hates.
And vice versa.
You could move but in the space of a couple of years the fantastic secondary you are wanting now could have become a dreadful dump.
It's an expensive risk.

@whatwouldAnnaDelveydo totally agree there but currently cant move abroad.

We're in South East London and the local comp has been terrible for a while plus I am really not keen on single sex education for boys.

For those who did move - which academic year did you pick for moving? And how did you find settling everyone - kids and yourself into a new area?

There is a well known disconnect in education quality between primary and secondary schools in many parts of London. Lots of people move from Year 4 onwards. You can see many outstanding primary schools, having tiny catchment for reception intakes and long waiting lists, then have vacancies in Year 4 and above.

I used to live in SE3, and I totally agree with pp who said schools change a lot in 5 or 10 years. That's exactly what happened with my DC's primary. Rubbish, then outstanding, then rubbish again. Several heads in a few years.

People in my area were always talking about trying the grammar schools in Kent. That's probably what I would do.
(I have a few friends who moved to Brighton as well).

What I found in my bit of SE London was that schools which had a bad reputation it was hanging on from years ago. When I spoke to current parents and when we looked round I was really impressed. Obviously I don't know what bit of SE London you are so what your options are. I would have thought it was unusual to have only one because there are undersubscribed schools that take from all over.

You could also look at schools which you are just out of the usual area for. We got a waiting list place at our first choice as there was quite a lot of movement.

If it's an option, plenty of people do the 11+ tests for the Bexley, Bromley and even Kent grammars. And remember you don't have to only apply within your borough, check what schools in your neighbouring borough you might be close enough to.

Lots of people do move in Y4 and 5 though. I think Y5 might be the most popular year to move from what I've seen.

If it's an option, plenty of people do the 11+ tests for the Bexley, Bromley and even Kent grammars. And remember you don't have to only apply within your borough, check what schools in your neighbouring borough you might be close enough to.

I don't know if it's changed more recently, but apart from the super-selectives eg St Olave's, it's not just a case of passing the 11plus - the schools also admit on distance. Depending on where in SE London you live, it may not be close enough unless you get a very high score. It would be worth checking the councils' websites before going down the grammar route. It is possible (my 3 DSs all went to grammars from SE13) but passing the 11plus doesn't guarantee you a place and parents often don't realise this.

London always has had a three tier education at secondary. Private day schools on top, middle classed state schools in the middle and then everywhere else.

Take a typical borough in South East London, Greenwich.

You have Colfe's private day school ( over 30% achieving AAB+ at A level) then good state school Tallis , massively oversubscribed with 12% getting AAB+ at A Level) then schools like Plumstead Manor, still rated good , getting 5% AAB+ at A-level.

This is repeated across every borough across London. There are very few truly 'rubbish' schools in London, given the uplift by the last Labour gov on London schools which has left a legacy of them being well ahead of state schools outside of London.

Within London, even ofsted 'good' schools seem 'bad' , as London has the highest concentration of the best schools in the country. A school like Camden School for Girls, or Mossbourne in Hackney, or Brampton Manor in Newham have A level results private schools outside of London can only dream of. Brampton outperforms Eton currently for Oxbridge places.

The school situation in London is ....complicated. But the 'disconnect' comes from the many tiger middle class parents who use primary state schools as unoffical prep schools in London then enter private at 7+ to prep up for selective secondary

I don't think Tallis is oversubscribed? Still have a huge catchment area as of last year, might be close enough for OP

I agree that it's early to know how good schools will be in 5 years. My son is currently at a failing comp but there's a new team in place and I'd bet its Good in 5 years.

Yes absolutely. That's what I meant by "if it's an option", but I should have been clearer as it isn't just "oh you passed go to the grammar". You really need to check you have a chance of getting in if you pass.

Is it the case if you are top 180 you are guaranteed a place? I lost track because we decided grammar wasn't for us.

Tallis had an offer area of 1875m last year, that's not massive.

Is it the case if you are top 180 you are guaranteed a place? I lost track because we decided grammar wasn't for us.

It certainly used to be in Bexley, which iirc I think equated to the top 4%, but I don't know if this is still the case. St Olave's just takes the top scorers and at one stage Dartford Grammar in Kent also took some top scorers (again, I'm not sure if this is still what happens).

We have a single sex boys secondary near us in SE London, we don’t use it but many of Ds friends do and I find an area brings families in, people stay and the schools change over time. They are happy with it

When you say all the local secondary schools are ‘quite rubbish’ - what are you basing this on? Have you visited them?

We decided to stay, because we really like living in London, and when we looked at possible towns to move to in Kent, Surrey etc to be honest, I just didn’t feel at home there. Also we didn’t want to face the grammar school stress / lottery. DH didn’t want a long commute to work.

The local secondary schools near us in SE London aren’t terrible, but they can’t compare to grammars or private schools. However, they do have benefits - some very good teachers (often young, enthusiastic teachers, rather than someone who’s hanging on for their pension). Intake is much wider, so exam results are never as good as grammars, but if your child is motivated, they can do very well.

We also decided we’d spend the money we save on not going private on Tutors where necessary.

However, I’m not a Tiger mum. You’ll find plenty of mums on here who would do absolutely anything rather than send their child to the local LA secondary school. Personally, I like to look at the bigger picture of what’s best for the family overall.

My DD did well in her GCSEs, now doing A Levels. She’s happy, enjoys the freedom and culture of living in London, and she’s mixing with people from a wide variety of backgrounds which can only be beneficial to her.

But hard to say what’s best for your family!

I agree with this post. I'm in SE London too and there's a lot of movement in years 4/5.

Some people tutor for grammars and then their kids have to travel quite far, with fewer local friends. Some tutor to get their kids into the private schools.

My son is in year 5 and I've been to see the local single sex state school with a poor ofsted. I was so impressed with it and every friend I have with a boy there is very happy. So I'd recommend visiting schools before writing them off/moving (unless you want to move for other reasons!)

So for us I think it's both the fact the only schools around here are either single sex and not very good or potentially a Harris which everyone seems to dislike because of it's general approach to education. We're in SE23 so probably too far out for Bromley grammars.

You live near me!

We didn’t bother with the grammars. Just too far and the travel so onerous

There's also Kingsdale. That's outstanding and co-ed. But has a lottery entry system.

Oh I thought you might be in SE23. We’re in exactly the same boat. We’re interested in Kingsdale but also considering Dulwich and Alleyn’s but probably can’t afford them. People do seem to like FH boys but I’m with you, feels like a strange choice and current not great Ofsted, though I know those aren’t everything. We really don’t want to move though.

But what do YOU think about the Harris approach to education? Rather than what everyone else thinks? They do have a specific style of education, we felt it wasn’t for us but I know some parents who really like it, hard to know until you visit the school yourself.

Single sex schools - I didn’t think I would like them, but in fact it’s not been such a big deal, and does have advantages.
By the time they get to Y12 they go mixed anyway once they are more mature and better able to deal with the hormones.

Exactly, it feels crazy - 1) it's mainly just single sex i.e. boys only, 2) Kingsdale but then everyone is applying to it from Peckham to Brixton, to Tulse Hill and Catford; 3) The stress and pressure of pushing for Dulwich or Dunstans even if we could somehow make it work financially. So for those who are local - what is your plan?

Something to bear in mind for Kingsdale is it has a huge intake (450 for Y7 in 2022) so depends if your DCs are ok with a school that size, and also their 6th form is small so no guarantee of a place for Y12.