rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

[080878tukh]

DC is currently in yr 2 in a local London primary and all our local secondary options are quite rubbish. Contemplating whether it's worth moving - but with things as they are - not really the right time interest rate/house prices wise. I guess our dilemma is not unusual for London - we are only in the catchment of one single sex school that is really not very good. Not sure that DC would pass an entrance exam for the local private schools - that have become incredibly competitive of late. For those who decided to stay or move - do you think it was worth it either way?

@piglet81 I find people do it as adults only visit in Year 5 to be able to shortlist and then re visit in Year 6 with their child.

Great, thanks @Mardyface and @Needmorelego

Yes I moved back to Kent when my daughter was three as I wanted my children to go to a good school with lots of outdoor space. Many of my London friends did the same, some moving to the Kent coast and some to Surrey.
We have the 11+ and so grammar schools here - my daughter didn't pass and went to a very good school, got a good set of GCSE and A levels and has a good job with the Met Police. My son passed and is currently doing his A Levels at a grammar school.
Some of the non selective schools here are good but others are really not. There are also catholic schools. The good ones have a very small catchment areas, less than 2 miles so I made sure that we moved to a place close to the non selectives.

Agreeing with @Boiledeggandtoast . Grammar schools here have a much wider distance criteria as obv only 20 something % of children pass the 11+. My son has school friends who live in Lewisham, Catford etc
I don't envy their commute to school though!
I believe though that those who live out of borough, have to score higher in the exams.

@ Shreddies- sorry, can I ask you what you have heard re Kingsdale? I am considering it for my DS. Thanks!

I would definitely go and look and go with your gut. Some people are very happy with it. Others have said it's very crowded and run down and the main complaint is that kids can get overlooked as it is so big. Extra curriculars sound great but in reality are only a 3 or 4 sessions. A kind of emperor's new clothes vibe.

One friend sent her first but not her second.

I think it markets itself as a pseudo private school but It is still a big, mixed comprehensive in south London with all the issues that brings but that's just my opinion based on a couple of visits and hearsay from others, so do see what you think. As I say I do also know people who are perfectly happy with it

Do you need to stay in London. I used to live near where you are, we look an employment opportunity elsewhere when dc were babies and didn't return, too many negatives.

I think this is a really balanced post and would add that with all schools the key is to try really hard to be blinkered about what YOUR KID is like and what YOUR values are and try not to be put off by competition/other people/ panic. So visit without a big group of other parents you know and try to make your own judgement based on your kid. It's easier said than done though!

@Mardyface has it. Having been through it twice I would be a little careful about the conversations you have over years 5&6. Some years at my kids primary school people really fell out. Think parents slagging off local school when in reality it's the only option for many. Or keeping it quiet that they've been coaching their kid since the year dot. Etc etc

Every single cohort, ppl panic in year 4 and 5, go crazy about the shining great prospect of the fancy pants school and end up at the local options anyway and it's all fine.

One thing I will say is that I loathe the hard sell they do on kids when they visit, it pisses me right off

@ Mardyface and Shreddies- that's great, thank you. All very sound advice that I will try to remember and stick to when I start panicking about secondary schools!

Totally agree about the hard sell. That 'this is the best school in the world!!!' schtick is really tiresome when you're trying to get a kid to think about what really matters. Plus, it's still school innit.

Yr2 is really thinking ahead and as others have said ALL secondary schools all look intimidating at that stage. Ignore OFTED as they are generally out of date and a big shake up will happen before you reach senior school age. Try not to listen to local gossip, when the time comes, Year 5 for preliminary looking, go in and see each school with an open mind. Sometimes it worth seeing something you think you won't like for comparison

There is definitely more choice in London, I looked at my borough and all that surround it (so up to an hour commute) and there were 30+ schools we could have had a shot at either on distance or some kind of aptitude test - there are a lot sport/art/languages/music/ability.

There are a few "good" schools that keep it tight and unless you have a priority place you aren't getting in which includes both Charters and Dunraven. Personally I wouldn't waste a space on the CAF if you are way off the admission criteria.

Yes this!! Panic is the right word in year 5/6. It's such a personal choice. Based on your own personal experience at school, your kid, their personality, your finances, political leanings etc! I'm trying to just focus on what will work for our son, our lifestyle and family.

The comprehensives in Bromley are all very good.

I used to live in SE23 and moved to BR2. This was mainly for more space but secondary schools were also a consideration as my children with both at primary at the time. Many people move out to Bromley (or further) around year 4/5. Overall we're pleased with the move but the area has quite a different feel - more suburban, people drive a lot more, many feel they live in Kent not London - so I'd say you need to be up for the move more generally not just schools. We have a much bigger house and garden on a quiet road which is lovely. DD is at Langley Girls (very happy) and DS will go to the boys in due course along with many of his friends. I have literally never heard anything bad about Langley boys locally.

Having said that all our friends still in SE23 are happy with secondary schools. Our old neighbours' boy did very well at FHB. I'd agree take a look around the local schools and also think about the area you'd move to...

It's a nightmare so I sympathise! I've lived in two middle class areas of London with mostly single sex schools where all the parents of boys suddenly sell up when they hit year 4! Single sex in the state sector feels very dated and inappropriate.

Do you remember when all discussion about Kingsdale on Mumsnet resulted in a thread deletion! It was hilarious. They didn't like people trying to find out about the exam cheating scandal and the enormous staff turnover.

School reputations tend to last for ages.

FHB is not a ‘failing’ school and I do believe the reputation is gradually changing.

Kingsdale is not the be all and end all either 🤷‍♀️

I know many kids and parents of kids at both and they are doing well. Parental unfluence and support is so important and mustn’t be under estimated IMO.

We discounted grammar as we didn’t want our DC’s doing huge commutes. They can both walk to Syd school/FHB which we felt was important.

You seem pretty set against FHB so looks like you’ll have to move or go for grammar with a back up at private.

@A580Hojas I don't quite get the obsession with Kingsdale. I know several kids who go there. It's generally perfectly fine...but nothing amazing.
The ones I know that go there go because their parents put it on the list because it's walking distance. That's why they wanted their children to go there.
(I also know others that put it on their list because they live practically across the road from it not because they were so amazingly wowed by it and thanks to the lottery system didn't get in).
I see the coaches and the overflowing buses and crowds of Kingsdale kids at the railway station who travel from miles away and all I can think is "why?"
I don't understand it. I really don't. It's just a school...

Usually people start looking in Y4 or Y5 (without their kids) but I wouldn’t worry about taking up a ‘place’ - now Covid restrictions have lifted the schools are generally keen to have parents visit in person.

We moved from a very central bit of zone 1 to Camden zone 2, just before DD started reception. I find moving house very stressful, so we targeted an area with excellent primary and secondary options, and we don't plan to move again until the DCs have finished secondary school (mine are both girls though, so specific school names probably aren't helpful to the OP). We wouldn't have wanted to leave inner London though, as we like the diversity, ease of walking to work, having everything on our doorstep, a car-free lifestyle etc.

For certain secondary schools, I think the reputation/quality of education has been high for decades (I grew up nearby and they were sought-after then) and the demographic is still similar (or if anything increasingly wealthier) so I'm not concerned that they would suddenly go downhill by the time DCs start at secondary. But if they do, private is also an option for us, and there are loads within easy travelling distance.

I think if we were in OP's position (with years to plan ahead) I'd visit as many schools as possible, and sell our home to live in a rental within spitting distance of the best comp, possibly affording it by choosing a place that was too small or a flat for the long term. Then I'd move out of the rental once the DC had started school, to an area that was still easy to travel to school but far enough to be cheaper so we could live in a house the right size for us. It would only work for comps with distance criteria though, so not grammars or lottery admissions.

Kingsdale parent whose child travels in from another county.

Reason for us was that it specialises heavily in DD's areas of interest and having looked at around 15 schools in Y5/6, it was the one that both DH and DD instantly said was the one they wanted, and one of only 2 that we all agreed we liked.

Been there nearly 3 years and can't think of anything to criticise - for my DD (clever but severe SEN, very single track focused, reasonably confident but never one of the "popular" girls, utterly disorganised and someone who tends to do the minimum possible in subjects she doesn't care about) it has been a success. They're caring, have managed to get to actively enjoy subjects she hated and academically she is doing better than even our wildest dreams, they're incredibly supportive of her ambitions and are not draconian on the discipline front but seem to have made her slightly more organised.

It won't suit every child and I think (if you actually do have real choice) then it's well worth visiting lots of schools with an open mind. There were ones we saw which looked perfect on paper and in person were awful. Kingsdale I went to see expecting to seriously dislike and came away with a very different impression (just ignore the HT's speech - enough to put anyone off the place).

FWIW, it can be a good idea to go and see schools on your own first and then compile a shortlist to take child to see. They can be very influenced by things that are of zero relevance (whether they liked what was on offer for lunch).

Also take other people's experiences with a pinch of salt. What suits their child, or their child hates may be completely different for yours.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow glad to hear your daughter is doing well at Kingsdale. I know lots of children there who mostly seem to be doing fine and are very happy.

For me the major issue with Kingsdale is the lottery system.

We live close by, but I know so many local kids who, even when getting music or sports scholarships, just didn't get a place. I'd rather not put it down than risk disappointment!