rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

[080878tukh]

DC is currently in yr 2 in a local London primary and all our local secondary options are quite rubbish. Contemplating whether it's worth moving - but with things as they are - not really the right time interest rate/house prices wise. I guess our dilemma is not unusual for London - we are only in the catchment of one single sex school that is really not very good. Not sure that DC would pass an entrance exam for the local private schools - that have become incredibly competitive of late. For those who decided to stay or move - do you think it was worth it either way?

I'm SE London too - near to Kingsdale and all those Harris schools.
I know quite a few children who went to Charter in Dulwich (the original one) and seem fairly pleased with it. Langley Park is also considered pretty good (all boys but I think it has links with the girls school next door).

I know FHB had a bad Ofsted, but I still think it’s an improving school and I know people who’ve chosen it and they all really like it. They were upset the Ofsted didn’t reflect their views of the school.

Sedgehill would currently take from SE23. Historically unpopular, but they had a good progress 8 score in this year’s reports, they have an incredible music and drama programme that other schools would kill for. It’ll be interesting to see what their Ofsted comes out as.

I don’t know if schools like Deptford Green or St Matthews are an option with bus journeys. And I’d visit the Harrises, don’t just assume you won’t like them.

I thought I would hate our local school (rated inadequate, poor Ofsted etc) but on going to see it the new head has really turned it around so don't rule yours out yet unless the concerns are truly something the school can't fix. For example, my friend in another borough won't even look at her local school as they have a real problem with drug use and gang violence including one child murdered as they left school.

The thing with the Harris schools some do have a good reputation and seem decent yet others are absolutely awful.
Unfortunately by being a 'brand' the bad ones can give the decent ones a bad rep.

Yes FHB were pleased with this year’s GCSE results, and are making a big effort to implement the Ofsted recommendations.
A lot of parents weren’t happy with the Ofsted rating as they felt it didn’t reflect the school properly.

We're close to you too.

I have 1 of each so not keen on single sex as I'd like them to go to the same school.

I'm not keen on Harris but will be ok with it for the technology one in Crystal Palace which would suit DS down to the ground.

Most likely though we will go private as paternal grandparents have been saving for that since they were born. Very very kind of them.

Even if not, we'd not move as we love our house and our area.

Knowing some of the boys who went to FHB I think it’ll be reflected over time, really smart boys included

I have the same dilemma OP - I really don't want to move, but the options for boys are poor around here.

I don't want a fiercely academic school, that wouldn't suit DS at all. I just want a safe friendly school with good teaching, good discipline, and a genuine mix of ability. Easy to achieve at primary level, very difficult at secondary level.

My one goes to Sydenham school. She's done very well there, but they put an awful lot of pressure on the girls. Forest Hill boys is ok, I suppose, FH and Sydenham join up in 6th Form.

I found all Harris secondary schools to be a bit meh, iyswim. Some charge a fortune for uniform.

Have you looked at Prendergast?

It seems like a horrible dilemma - house versus your kid's education. Just checked and FHB is eligible for contextual offers at UCL but not where we live. So the school is rubbish enough, just not our house

@SkinnyFatte we wouldnt be close enough to Prendergast. If we had girls, we wouldnt be thinking about moving

Unless it was grammar there are very few areas in London I would let my kids go to school in
Mate of mine is a teacher in a deprived London borough has kids in her class who really cannot understand English which affects the other kids teaching

I do not understand this kind of comment. London is a big place with a vast array of different neighbourhoods and schools. But let's write them all off because of someone's "mate".

Where was this?

I think there are some very good state options that are not grammar in London

Some may be as you say but no necessarily where op is considering

Yes, I am not sure that all schools in London are rubbish. But we are not religious so a lot of the nice non-grammar options are out. It feels like it's this particular corner of London that is particularly bad - so many of the local primaries are outstanding but secondaries less so

Huge generalisation there!! You can’t write off all London schools because of one school your friend worked in…

Anyway the facts are that ‘White British pupils eligible for free school meals (FSM) persistently underperform compared with peers in other ethnic groups, from early years through to higher education.’ (Education Committee).

My experience is that many families who have come to the UK from other countries often really want their children to do well and to have a better life than they have had. London schools are used to this, often they have EAL classes to help the children improve their language skills.
I’d rather my child was in a class with an EAL student than a badly behaved one.

Hayes is mixed and just waiting for its latest Ofsted.
Am thinking a BR2 house would be much cheaper than SE23.
Also Langley schools around here are good (both about to get new heads though) but single sex and grammar access but again single sex. Also have the New Eden Park and Harris, both mixed, but not hearing great things about them.

@londongals that's ridiculous. There's bucket loads of state secondaries in London that are full of (if you excuse this phrase) naice middle class children.

And we moved from br3 to br2 for the schools.

The current Ofsted framework is much stricter so a lot of outstanding schools who haven’t been inspected for a while are losing their outstanding status.

Currently about 1 in 5 schools are outstanding, Ofsted expect that to go down to 1 in 10.

So going forward it’s going to be much harder to find an ‘outstanding’ school.

What makes you say FHB is a rubbish school? My son went there and is now turning down a place at Bristol to read History for something more challenging as his A level results were so good! He has many friends going to a wide variety of Universities. The advantages of going to a very demographically and ethnically mixed true comprehensive school in London are myriad.

I didn't particularly want single sex schools but didn't have any choice in the matter. My dd went to Sydenham Girls - it was the perfect school for her, she could not have been happier.

I'm so glad I didn't go down the knee-jerk route and move house.

And the outstanding schools are left un-inspected for years and years, if not decades!

so essentially your options are:

move to catchment area of a great state school (the houses will be more expensive though)

pay for private school (your DC will need to do tuition for entrance tests) - you may be able to get a bursary towards fees

move to catchment of a grammar school e.g. Kent (DC will need to do tuition for entrance tests)

go to a secondary school near to where you live and accept it’s not perfect.

I really suggest doing some visits before you start thinking about moving. It’s not just about the school itself, but also the journey, how they will meet up with friends, can they do activities, can they travel on their own, what are the post 16 options etc.

In person, a school or town can seem very different to the website.

Re single sex education, I know it's hard to imagine them when they are older when your son is now so little and still at the age where he will play happily in a mixed group but it is different as they hit the pre-teen years. I used to think exactly like you and was sad that my son would have to leave his female friends behind but girls grow up so much more quickly than boys in the early teens that I don't think it's a real advantage socially being taught in mixed classes and there is a strong argument for single sex education. Whilst I absolutely do not subscribe to the "boys will be boys" mentality, boys and girls do learn differently and being in an environment which is tailored to them can be an advantage.

My oldest son is now at a mixed 6th form and has had no problem learning with girls or mixing with them socially.

And regarding your local school, have you actually been to see it? Ofsted reports only give a snap shot of a school and I'd also be wary of feedback from parents as it's rarely fully honest, for many reasons. It's really best to visit and form your own opinions.

I have two at Sydenham Girls. They have many friends at FHB - all happy, all thriving. Most very very bright and expected to get excellent GCSE results. DD1 could not have been happier at Sydenham - she is pushed sufficiently, happy and has a fabulous group of friends. She is in a good place mentally for her GCSEs (year 11) which is more than can be said for many of her friends in more 'prestigious' local schools. I wish she could have had more trips, but Covid - and trips are a lot cheaper to replace than it would be to move house. She's likely to stay for Sixth Form at the mixed Sixth between the two schools though heaven knows her predictions give her many options.

DD2 (year 9) suffered from a Covid transition and there was one specific subject where things haven't gone so well. But it has been pulled back really impressively. She's also now very happy and being suitably academically stretched as well as having a very good time in almost all subjects. I don't think we could ask for more.

If we'd moved and expected anywhere else to be better I think we would have been disappointed. Friends with children at the boys school say the same. Good luck with your choice!