rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

[080878tukh]

DC is currently in yr 2 in a local London primary and all our local secondary options are quite rubbish. Contemplating whether it's worth moving - but with things as they are - not really the right time interest rate/house prices wise. I guess our dilemma is not unusual for London - we are only in the catchment of one single sex school that is really not very good. Not sure that DC would pass an entrance exam for the local private schools - that have become incredibly competitive of late. For those who decided to stay or move - do you think it was worth it either way?

I definitely agree with this, my DD was at Sydenham and has done very well. Being in a diverse school has so many benefits that I think will really help her when she goes off to Uni and out to work. She says she’s very glad we didn’t move!

@Endlessdays We definitely wouldnt be moving if we had girls. My impression is that Sydenham is a nice school. All the parents with girls are planning on staying. My concern is more FHB

What exactly is your concern with FHB? Just the Ofsted? It’s a good school.

@Endlessdays results, general comments from Ofsted, how few kids get top GCSE/A'level results for getting into top unis, honestly some of the general behaviour on the street - I've in the past had to assist younger pupils who were set upon by large groups of boys from the school and were scared for their safety

By A-level the school is mixed with Sydenham, and the results for SFH6 are pretty good as far as I can see. It's not a sixth form for those who want to be spoon-fed, but those who work hard are supported all the way and get into Russell Group and Oxbridge just fine.

I don't know so much about the GCSEs in general for the boys but the children I know who have gone there have all had excellent grades.

I'm not sure I've seen any worse behaviour from the Forest Hill boys than other local children to be honest. From what I know from friends the school goes on lots of trips, really pushes its gifted and talented children and gives free music lessons. These are all good things.

If you're worried though, try also looking at Hatcham in New Cross - music places and actually I think occasional places come up too for those in SE23 as well as Deptford Green (Ofsted Good) and with some really innovative teaching.

No that’s not good - did you report it to the school? I don’t know anyone around here who has experienced that, none of my DCs have, so not good but don’t think it‘s a common occurrence.

Re the grades and top universities - it’s a joint 6th form which has a good reputation (and a ‘Good’ Ofsted rating) and gets students into good universities every year (including Oxford, Cambridge and Russell group) so I don’t think it’s correct to sat ‘few kids get into top Unis’.

www.sfh6.org/604/leavers-destinations

Also re general behaviour on the street - if you were around most secondary schools (yes, including outstanding and grammar schools) at home time, you would not be happy about the behaviour.

Even the ‘good’ secondaries have to deal with anti-social behaviour outside school.

It can be difficult as a primary parent of a young child to see all those teenagers and imagine your child at the school. A lot of teenager behaviour is loud and overly boisterous, but doesn’t mean the school is rubbish.

I live in the same area.

I have one at Syd and one at FHB.

Have you looked around all the schools OP?

If you feel that FHB is such a poor school then you will have to pay for private or go for grammar.

St Dunstans is far less selective than Alleyns/DC etc

Same dilemma OP. DC also in year 2. Glad I'm not the only one worrying so early on!!!!! We moved from a deprived area of London (ex-council flat with ASB issues, drugs etc. on the estate) to another part of London when DC was 18 months old for it's outstanding primary.

Happy with our house and DC is happy at school but thinking of secondary options is scary...our local school is dire (ofsted "good" but results are shockingly bad and it's known locally for it's overall bad reputation...). Also not keen on single sex school (which would be next most local option). We can't afford a house like ours in a better postcode with better secondary schools so would have to significantly downsize....
It's a little stressful thinking about it because education is so important to us...I think we will have to sit tight and re-assess in year 4 approx....yr 5 latest. In the meantime we're supporting DC educationally and will see whether grammar is suitable (only 1 local grammar)..also keeping private in mind as a last resort....(although limited nearby options!)

My niece lives in East London and is re-locating to Leeds for cheaper housing and better secondary schooling.

There are boys from Sydenham and Forest Hill at St Olaves grammar (there is no catchment) but obviously it is very competitive to get in. 10 applicants to a place. Dartford Grammar (trains from Lewisham) also possibly an option, but again top scores needed. Have heard good things about St Dunstans and they offer scholarships (probably not worth loads but worth checking out). Kingsdale also good.

I think I'd go for Kingsdale and Charter with St Dunstans as a back up if you can pay. St Olaves Grammar, Dartford Grammar, Allen's and Dulwich College if they are academic/talented.

Hi OP you sound like a lovely caring parent.
I live in se23 and teach in a challenging part of East London and have worked in mainly tough secondary schools in London for over 30 years. I am well old. I think schools are like mini universes, full of different people and subject to change. A student can have a fantastic experience at the same school another can really struggle in. I know that isn't very reassuring but a lot of the school experience is about what that student puts in.
Also st Thomas the Apostle in Nunhead has great reviews from people who have worked there. And from what I see of the local teenagers the schools round se23 are pretty good.
I think you should have a look at the schools yourself as so many posters have said and don't worry too much. Your son has your support which is so valuable.

What's the school?

Or is this completely made up to prove a point that doesn't exist, @londongals

Its funny how Brampton Manor in Newham has 77% English as a second language, yet wipes the floor with most UK state secondaries for A level results....

I think one of my concerns is that my kid is a bit like me and just follows the crowd. In my case, my school crowd was all top sets so I got all As and A* for GCSEs and good A'levels but I went to a school ( for six months before my mum pulled me out) where studying wasnt cool and I was close to not getting any A'levels. This was mainly because there it wasnt cool to come to school and bunking off was the norm. So clearly in my case, the school environment made a massive difference between me barely attending lessons and getting into Oxford - I am quite conscious of ways in which school contexts impact on student performance.

Looking at FH school’s most recent GCSE data, Progress 8 for different groups etc, I am not sure why it is seen as ‘rubbish’?

Progress is above the national average, quite a bit above for middle ability boys in particular. The things Ofsted suggests need improving are in fact quite straightforward to address compared with long-entrenched teaching issues or problems that arise from deep-seated social problems in the intake - encourage GCSE language take-up, make sure the curricula aren’t too narrowly exam-focused etc.

Comparing with older Ofsteds and selective schools isn’t fair - the criteria are different and a selective school will obviously give higher results even if not higher progress.

I can see that it being single sex could be an issue. A diamond model - mixed primary, mixed 6th form, single sex 11-16 - is actually a really successful one in research (though iirc it benefits girls slightly more) and you can encourage mixed extracurricular activities like music or drama or swimming or Scouts if it is a big issue for you due to there being eg no girls in you wider family.

Tbh it is not so much the ‘overall context’ of a school but the ‘micro context’ of a specific form or friendship group that makes the most difference.

DD and DS went to the same ‘highly regarded’ comp. DS fell in with a ‘micro group’ that was geeky, mixed sex, musical, ambitious… and thrived. DD 2 was in a different year group and different tutor griup, and was very isolated and withdrawn as her micro context was anti-academic. Did very well but didn’t really thrive until she moved fir 6th firm and found a new tribe.

We're local and I get confusing vibes about FHB - some people rave about it, some people will do anything to avoid it. I don't think it's a bad school. I get the impression a lot of nice kids do well there, but it does depend on their character. And the cohort, which you can't control.

Five years is a long time too... it could be a completely different school by then!

I have a girl who started at Sydenham this year and know lots of boys who started at FHB this year and previously who all seem to enjoy it and are doing well there. My neighbour who was a bit worried about her son starting there couldn't have been happier with the support he got when starting. I think if you are concerned then perhaps have a look around next year on the open days and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

What are you talking about?

OP can't "go for" Kingsdale and Charter. In SE23 she is not in the catchment for either Charter school in Dulwich/East Dulwich. She can apply to Kingsdale and hope for a place in the lottery along with all the other 400+ pupils going into Y7.

Or she can calm down a bit about FHB and go and have a look and meet the HT Mr Sullivan and stop being so flappy.

If you only want your child surrounded by high-achievers then you really are looking at selective schools.

Any truly comprehensive school (like FHB or Harris or Sedgehill) is going to have a mixture of pupils - some high achievers for whom studying is cool, but some who aren’t.

I don’t think you can say the local schools are ‘rubbish’ just because they have a mix of pupils, when that is what they have been designed to do.
FHB have an above average Progress 8 score, which gives a better indication than pure grades - because it’s unfair to compare the results of a comprehensive school with a selective school.

Well obviously if only Oxford will do for your child OP then you might just have to suck it up and pay. And of course then there's no guarantees . I live in London and have 3 friends whose 6 x children went to private school. 1 did an Art degree, not Oxbridge. 1 became a professional footballer. 4 went to other Universities, not Oxford or Cambridge.

@A580Hojas I know children who live 'out of catchment' of Charter and go there. She could apply if she wants. No harm in trying.
But...her child is only in Year 2 so the whole application system could have changed by the time she needs to apply.

@A580Hojas I also know children who live 'out of catchment' for Forest Hill Boys and go there.
We live 'out of catchment' for Sydenham Girls - it's by distance so will vary from year to year depending on amounts applying and where they live. 2 girls who live down my road have just finished there. My girl missed out a couple of years ago by probably metres but my next door neighbours girl started this year.
I assume FHB is similar with places.
To be honest - there's no such thing as 'catchment areas' for London (non selective) schools. It's distance.

Just to clarify - at no point did I say that I went to a selective school for A'levels. Actually, it was one of the Ark academies that was 'failing' and then got 'turned around'. My point was simply that I think context matters beyond just my kid going to class.