Why on earth would anyone reject SPGS??

[newsibling123]

I've been reading through many threads with mums wondering between SPGS and G&L.

While G&L is a great school, why on Earth would there be a conflict in choosing SPGS, they applied in the first place, its not like they got cold called by the school and their DD offered a place!

If we applied to SPGS, we'd put G&L as back up, but if we had two offers there's no question we'd choose SPGS. The only way I can imagine conflict is if G&L offered a scholarship, or DD really didn't want to go SPGS, even then we would try and show her what a brilliant opportunity it was.

I know one chooses the best school for the DC, etc etc, but I can't imagine any scenario, all things being equal, how G&L would be 'better'. If DD was heavily tutored and parent was worried she'd struggle at SPGS now they have offer in hand, then G&L doesn't come to mind as an alternative to that! One of the less intense GDST schools or somewhere with broader selection, less high academic like Portland or More House maybe?

Don't mean to offend anyone here, choosing school is tough, but I just don't get this at all...It's like getting a place at Oxford and choosing Durham

We put DD down for loads of private schools not really wanting all of them, but to maximise her chances of success.

SPGS was not one of them, because of what I've been told about pastoral care there, rightly or wrongly.

However DD applied to some v academic schools and some not so academic schools, and the one we chose was in the middle because we liked it the most.

Results are not everything!

But even that suggests they were going through selection with eyes half open?

People didn't realise, changed their minds, circumstances changed - could be any number of reasons. Is that really so hard to believe for you?

Tbh, you are coming across a little smug.

I couldn’t imagine interviewing at Oxford getting an offer then rejecting it, why apply?

My DD applied because her school encouraged her to, she was curious, and no other reason. When I picked her up after her overnight stay and her interview, she asked how we'd feel if she was offered a place and turned it down. While it had been an interesting experience touring the college and meeting and sociolising with her fellow candidates, she just didn't feel that it was for her. She was much more enthused by a Russell group university that led in her subject. We said that of course it was fine for her to say no. It's not like she'd ever been that excited about the Oxbridge option. Her state school was just doing its job of encouraging it's brightest pupils to apply.

As it turned out, she didn't get an offer so it didn't come to that. But her choice was entirely genuine. She got in at the place she really wanted, and did extremely well there.

[quote ConfusedaboutSchool]@newsibling123 do you have children and have you applied for schools yet?

Parents might apply for SPGS even if its not their first choice because if they didn't get their preferred option they would still potentially go to SPGS as a fallback.

As odd as it sounds, there are many instances of children getting into higher league table schools and being rejected by ones that are perceived to be easier to get into. Parents are just spreading the bets to have as many options as possible.[/quote]
Yes, at prep. I've a bit of time till 11, but through friends and family I see SPGS as a brilliant school and would dearly love my DD to go there.

I understand that some families view it as second choice, but it does seem odd to me.

Bringing up Uni was a red herring, as I know a cousin for example who wanted to study the best place for computer animation degree and that's not Oxbridge , same as fashion...mining and...farming!

But on my OP I did say 'all things being equal' - So I would place SPGS above all girls schools, so it's no surprise , all these SPGS vs G&L threads pushed me to type

I'm baffled by your bafflement, OP. There are so many reasons why people might apply but not take up an offer at the school. Anecdotally, we applied because DD was encouraged to and the application process gave us some insight into a school we knew little about. We were very impressed by it and it's obviously an excellent school but there are many excellent schools out there and, in the end, DD chose another very academic but, we (and, more importantly, she) felt, more down-to-earth school, which she loves. For me, the fact that people get so carried away with the prestige of SPGS was quite a turn-off. There is very little difference in terms of outcome when it comes to choosing one very good school over another so for us is came down to a combination of child's preference, atmosphere, distance, cohort, fees etc.

I wouldn’t send a daughter of mine there if you paid me. HTH.

@saraclara

I couldn’t imagine interviewing at Oxford getting an offer then rejecting it, why apply?

My DD applied because her school encouraged her to, she was curious, and no other reason. When I picked her up after her overnight stay and her interview, she asked how we'd feel if she was offered a place and turned it down. While it had been an interesting experience touring the college and meeting and sociolising with her fellow candidates, she just didn't feel that it was for her. She was much more enthused by a Russell group university that led in her subject. We said that of course it was fine for her to say no. It's not like she'd ever been that excited about the Oxbridge option. Her state school was just doing its job of encouraging it's brightest pupils to apply.

As it turned out, she didn't get an offer so it didn't come to that. But her choice was entirely genuine. She got in at the place she really wanted, and did extremely well there.

Similar here Our school took a few of us to Oxford (From Yorkshire) and treated us to the whole experience. I just didn’t fancy it and refused to apply, despite pressure from many sides Of course there’s no guarantee I would have got an offer but given my A level results it was pretty likely. Ironically there were 2 people from my school who DID go to Oxford, one of whom had been refused a place on the trip as he was supposedly not likely to get in.

OP You make some strange assumptions in your posts, not least about DC rejecting Oxbridge. DC don't just choose other Unis over Oxford for animation, fashion, mining and farming courses. My DS got four offers to study Medicine last year, that's an offer from everywhere he applied to. For context, 5% of all UK med applicants achieve that. He also scored in the top 2% in the UK in last year's UCAT Clinical Entrance exam. This is not boasting, purely to explain his academic ability and strength of interview performance and that his choices regarding where to apply were wide open.The reason he didn't apply to Oxbridge was simply because he didn't like the course structure (three years in class before any clinical content). He had no doubt that he would much prefer to study at another very well regarded Medical School that would result in exactly the same qualification. The DC from his school who did go on to study Medicine at Oxbridge were actually not as highly ranked academically as he had been. He also knows a couple of people on his Medicine course who had offers from Oxbridge and rejected them and a number of others who didn't apply for the same reason as him. Sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with calibre or lack of aspiration and all about choice and fit. We took exactly the same approach when it came to choosing schools and it all worked out well.

@opoponax

OP You make some strange assumptions in your posts, not least about DC rejecting Oxbridge. DC don't just choose other Unis over Oxford for animation, fashion, mining and farming courses. My DS got four offers to study Medicine last year, that's an offer from everywhere he applied to. For context, 5% of all UK med applicants achieve that. He also scored in the top 2% in the UK in last year's UCAT Clinical Entrance exam. This is not boasting, purely to explain his academic ability and strength of interview performance and that his choices regarding where to apply were wide open.The reason he didn't apply to Oxbridge was simply because he didn't like the course structure (three years in class before any clinical content). He had no doubt that he would much prefer to study at another very well regarded Medical School that would result in exactly the same qualification. The DC from his school who did go on to study Medicine at Oxbridge were actually not as highly ranked academically as he had been. He also knows a couple of people on his Medicine course who had offers from Oxbridge and rejected them and a number of others who didn't apply for the same reason as him. Sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with calibre or lack of aspiration and all about choice and fit. We took exactly the same approach when it came to choosing schools and it all worked out well.

That's amazing for your DC, but Medicine falls into the specialised degree , I've family members who all applied to London med schools, it didn't even occur to them to study at Oxbridge. Again , like a lot of the posters here, you've explained a perfectly rational reason why your DC didn't apply. My OP really was aimed at those who did apply and then reject, but to be fair I'm reading legit reasons why this may happen.

When I talk about rejecting an Oxford place, I'm talking about the History or politics student , who has an offer of place at Oxbridge and another Russell group uni like say Bristol.

@puffyisgood

The Oxbridge comparison works. Any parent who reads league tables always sees St Pauls girls right up there, I know IB obscures things, so SPGS always look better, but parents look at these and see SPGS sticks out like a sore thumb for results.

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/school-league-tables-gcse-a-level-results-london-a4356301.html

There's also the dominance of St Pauls as an Oxbridge feeder, which G&L doesn't have the same strong conveyor belt tradition. I can only think of Eton, Westminster , St Pauls boys and Kings that send such large cohorts each year , no other girls school is in this bracket.

That's why it's pushes all the buttons for me ( someone who places high value on these things)

Ones personal situation comes into play, we won't be able to leave a huge trust for our children, essentially paying for their education is our gift to them, for families like us value is very important , in other words, for us to justify spending over 25K a year on our DC, it has to be what we perceive as the very best.

I think this is where I'm veering off from other people, it's been interesting hearing these views and eye opening,

I feel like we need a topic for private school, this is one of many threads I have opened in Secondary Education and not understood a word of the OP

@newsibling123- will you be disappointed in your daughter if she doesn't get into St Pauls. Will you feel she's failed? What happens if she does get in but then decides she doesn't want to go to University?

Have you actually looked round the school?

I'm not totally sure this isn't a wind up thread?

I agree that this might be a wind up thread. Just in case it's not though..., okay fair enough, Medicine is different. However, just in my DS's year group, I know 2 DC who have chosen LSE and UCL over Oxbridge places for Economics and one who chose Warwick over Cambridge for Maths. There were a number of others who went to Oxbridge, which was great for them because it was right for them - but not for all academic high-achievers. In the kindest possible way, I would stop placing such high value on the ROI% on school fees and think more about the contribution that a particular school brings to the child as a whole, not least their own happiness and potential to grow in the widest sense of the word. The reach of this is much more than a set of exam results and whether they end up at Oxbridge or not! A few years ago a colleague's DS went to the top boy's school in the country and ended up not even getting an offer into a RG Uni. Why? Because the school was a very bad fit for him. She didn't listen to him when choosing the school and he resented her for it and would have done much better at the school he preferred a rung down. How do you know that your children will even want to go to Oxbridge? It is surely about their happiness and fulfilment at the end of the day, isn't it?

[quote hollibobs22]@newsibling123- will you be disappointed in your daughter if she doesn't get into St Pauls. Will you feel she's failed? What happens if she does get in but then decides she doesn't want to go to University?

Have you actually looked round the school?

I'm not totally sure this isn't a wind up thread?[/quote]
I'd be disappointed, not devastated, I certainly won't make her feel like she's failed, and ultimately you can't push water uphill, if she didn't want to go to university. As long as she was doing 'something' positive instead.

I intend to start tours closer to the time, DD is little.

If we were in a position where we were applying of course she would have toured the school, had long chats with DD, with our prep, etc. IF she didn't have a hope in hell or seemed at complete odds with the school, of course I wouldn't push to apply. Still a bit early (bright 7+, so on the path so to speak)

I don't know why looking at SPGS place at the top of league tables and high Oxbridge entry making it a highly desirable school for my DD makes me 'a wind up'. As I explained in another post, if we're shelling out over 25K a year, for us that's a huge huge amount of cash and we can only really justify it by sending her to the school with amazing results and rep.

@opoponax

That's why I said bog standard History or Politics. I know certain subjects have more gravitas at certain institutions.

I completely agree about fit, and see it as so fundamental it goes without saying. My DD would have to love it , or how else could it possibly work? In my OP I said I'd let my DD pick G&L over SPGS if my DD really wanted this.

Would still rather my DC went to the comp not so far away from SPGS — and both of them are at Oxbridge FWIW.

Because each child has 2 parents, and each child by the age of 10/11 may well have developed rational opinions of their own. It's entirely possible that one or other of the parents or the child themselves were keen on SPGS but one or more of the other two have doubts but the child might as well sit the exam and see what happens but no decisions are being made till the offers are in cos there's no point handwringing about which school is a better fit when you don't even know which schools are even possible yet.

An extraordinary thread. It is almost as if it were started by a current pupil.
Everyone with children at St. Paul's and Godolphin know of girls who have chosen the latter over the former for a multitude of reasons, which are discussed in detail on Mumsnet year after year.
Why not read the threads in question.

Wow. Another world. Bit terrifying really.

[quote newsibling123]@opoponax

That's why I said bog standard History or Politics. I know certain subjects have more gravitas at certain institutions.

I completely agree about fit, and see it as so fundamental it goes without saying. My DD would have to love it , or how else could it possibly work? In my OP I said I'd let my DD pick G&L over SPGS if my DD really wanted this.[/quote]
Are History and Politics considered "bog standard" then?

This thread is utterly mystifying to me.

This thread is like a foreign language to a fair few of us. The pressure some of these DC appear to be under feels a bit mind blowing from the outside.

@Utility

I haven't got DC at either school so I wouldn't know that.

I'll be the first to put my hands up to say I'm caught up with the hype around the school, and I started the thread because the reasons put forward for dithering between the two schools in the threads were things like who has the best sports, which I just didn't understand, sport facilities aren't what comes to mind why one would send their DD to academic powerhouse like these schools. I accept that's my own prejudice.

I do understand as some have posted that SPGS is their second choice to G&L and only applied as back up to G&L. But reading the threads, it does seem the OP's see each school as roughly equal and can't decide and asking for MN advice pros and cons of each school.

I think some posters are just reading the headline of the thread and not my point. Lots of legit reasons to switch from SPGS to G&L, but as my OP said, "all things being equal," I don't understand why SPGS doesn't win.

@Volterra

This thread is like a foreign language to a fair few of us. The pressure some of these DC appear to be under feels a bit mind blowing from the outside.

Yep. I had to Google those initials. And I really feel for these kids who are pressurised to the point that the most academic school in the country, and Oxford is the only acceptable academic route. I notice that Cambridge doesn't even get a look in.

@saraclara

I don't pressure my DD, and I wrote Oxbridge, - personally I'd love my DD to attend Newnham college, Cambridge where my Aunt went, much prefer the chilled vibe of Cambridge to Oxford any day!

True these are very academic schools , but I wouldn't dream of sending my daughter to even try for the school unless her private primary school supported her and more importantly I felt she was bright enough and could handle the pressure of a school with very clever girls.

It's a tightrope as you want your girls to be all they can be, ( and I believe all girls environment is needed for that) but you don't want to put too much pressure on them.

Her happiness is above all and I mean that.

the chilled vibe of Cambridge

😂😂😂

It’s a very sad state of affairs OP when you declare a school “the best” based on a) exam results, b) Number of Oxbridge places and c) prestige - when you haven’t even been to see it.

The school only selects the very brightest girls. Those who go onto Oxbridge probably would have gone there if they had gone to any other school as well. Just because they are all huddled together under one roof doesn’t make it a better school. In fact, I am more in awe of those schools who can turn a Grade B student into a Grade A one and turn an aspirational Oxbridge place into reality as opposed to it just been taken as a given.

There are lots of schools that do this very successfully and IMO give you far better value for money as a result.

In fact, it would be interesting to have a post on schools I wish parents would look at and evaluate property for what they offer that aren’t topping the league tables.

I actually really like SPGS so not bashing it at all. We turned down a place for DD1 at one of the top north London day schools (not far behind SPGS for results) in favour of one people see as a “backup” school. The decision was obvious as we got to know the schools more but not something we could have known based on open days. People thought we were mad. Turns out it was the best decision we ever made.