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Secondary education

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Original poster

My son has been permanently excluded

158 replies

Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 09:39

Name changed because details are extremely outing.

If there are any experts on here, or if anyone could offer any adice I'd be extremely grateful.

Very briefly. My son used a nicotine pouch in school (he's year 10), they are a legal but age restricted smoking cessation product, in the same way that vapes are. Having legal age restricted products are punishable by fixed exclusion, usually a couple of days.

However, the kid told him it was a banned product called Snus, which is basically chewing tobacco in a pouch.

He has been kicked out, not because it was snus, but because he believed it was snus. All evidence clearly shows it was nicotene pouches.

W.T.A.F???? He's been kicked out because he thought something was something else? How is this even legal?

The Governors upheld the exclusion, even though I coherently fought against the decision with plenty of well researched information.

He's currently at a PRU, I need him out ASAP, it's a hell hole.

I need the permanent exclusion overturned so I can get him into our local catchment school, not an easy move currently as the school can refuse him, or it will be a managed move with all the problems that brings.

The next step is an independant review panel.

A bit of background, my son's behaviour has been challenging at times, due to ADHD, nothing major though, all low level, but it's fair to say he can be a pain. I truly believe that this is the real reason behind the exclusion. He presented them with an opportunity and they leapt on it. I have made arguments regarding his SEN, to no avail.

Please help!

OP posts:
Didiusfalco · 04/12/2021 09:42

Putting all other things aside, I think managed moves can go well. We have a number of pupils at my school who have come on managed moves and settled really well. I must say I wouldn’t try and force him back in. Some schools aren’t a great fit for some pupils and they can thrive elsewhere.

itsgettingwierd · 04/12/2021 09:44

It difficult because he had something on him he believed to be illegal. Therefore the intention to carry an illegal item was there.

The school therefore have excluded him as the potential to do other illegal things is possible.

As he has adhd and it's clear he can't manage a mainstream school without extra support not usually available I'd be applying for an EHCP asap. He needs a specialist place for pupils who need support for adhd so he can manage his impulsiveness and make the right decisions.

This maybe in a Ms school with extra support or specialist independent school.

PRUs can be really beneficial for pupils who need a tailored approach but I realise that not all of them are great and some are places where pupils who struggle to control their behaviour can be worse.

Overthebow · 04/12/2021 09:46

Sorry I see it from the schools pov. Your son thought he had a banned product, and was happy to have it knowing the consequences. He is being punished for that. I don’t see the problem.

FenceSplinters · 04/12/2021 09:52

I feel your pain. We are in a similar situation but he has no current access to education. It’s frustrating. He’s year ten too.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 09:52

Hi Didiusfalco, thanks for your response. The problem as far as I can see is that managed moves require a three month trial period. If my son is less than very well behaved, the move can fail and he can be sent back to the PRU. Also, the school I want to send him to can just refuse, as can any school, the manager of the PRU made that clear.

I don't want him back into the school he has been expelled from, if the exclusion was overturned I'd apply for an in-year transfer to our local school.

It might be worth pointing out that the school he was excluded from is a free school.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 04/12/2021 09:52

I think you need to put your energy into fighting to get the right school with the right support.

I can fully see why the school took the action they did. He believed that was what he has and was still happy to have it in school.

Titsywoo · 04/12/2021 09:55

A girl at my school was expelled for having a bag of dried herbs which she was selling as cannabis. So this can happen I'm afraid.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 09:58

'Sorry I see it from the schools pov. Your son thought he had a banned product, and was happy to have it knowing the consequences. He is being punished for that. I don’t see the problem.'

He didn't think he had a banned product, he thought it was called Snus, and that it was a nicotine replacement. He had never heard of it before, he was told that that was what it was called.

Don't you think that permanent exclusion, and all the crap that goes with that is proportionate? Good to hear the other side of the argument though, because I can work on that.

OP posts:
Doubledoorsontogarden · 04/12/2021 09:58

I don’t think that the school should or will overturn it. Focus on a managed move and your son’s behaviour, not just during the trial period.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:00

Sorry to hear you're going through similar FenceSplinters, it's unbelievably hard Flowers

OP posts:
FenceSplinters · 04/12/2021 10:03

What really gets me is the double standards. There are kids doing much worse things and getting away with it.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:06

Tell me about it! Loads of other kids used it, just weren't caught. My son won't 'snitch', which is gutting, because arguably she wouldn't be able to exclude 10+ in one go.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 04/12/2021 10:08

I agree with you that this was an excuse to expel him rather than that one incident being the reason. But I don't blame thd school if he is a constant troublemaker. I am not saying he is because I don't know but you say yourself his behaviour isn't good.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:10

All physical evidence pointed to nicotine pouches, they actually confiscated the product.

In a court of law, the school wouldn't have stood a chance. My son was on course to get 7's and 8's in his GCSE's. He's fucked.

I understand what everyone's saying, I do. But I will never understand how possible intent trumps evidence, and is worthy of leaving his life in tatters.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 04/12/2021 10:10

And from the schools POV taking firm action on the student caught sends out a message to others that they have zero tolerance

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:13

Viviennemary, he's not a constant trouble maker, without going into to much detail, most incidents are stage one bar one (when he ran into the head, interestingly), minor incidents.

OP posts:
Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:14

Sirzy, that's fine, but it is not the same punishment for vapes or other smoking cessation products.

OP posts:
pumpkinpal · 04/12/2021 10:15

Your anger is misdirected.

Your son has a problem and is a problem.

Focus on that.

Sirzy · 04/12/2021 10:15

But you said yourself it’s their policy. It’s a clear policy.

If nothing else it’s a bloody good lesson to not accept random substances without knowing what it is!

FrippEnos · 04/12/2021 10:17

I doubt that the school could have expelled him for one incident.
They have to produce evidence supporting their actions. this is then upheld or rejected by the governors.

I suspect that part of the issue was that you (may have) focused on this one incident.

I could of course be wrong as I wasn't there.

I also find your comment about not being able to exclude 10+ in one go quite bizarre, especially as it seems to excuse your DS's behaviour.

williremember · 04/12/2021 10:18

@Expelled123

Viviennemary, he's not a constant trouble maker, without going into to much detail, most incidents are stage one bar one (when he ran into the head, interestingly), minor incidents.
You are excusing his bad behaviour. Most children get through school without any behaviour points. Children shouldn't be smoking so shouldn't need nicotine patches. You are also being naive to think he didn't know what he had.

I suggest you work with him to accept the consequences of his behaviour and focus on getting him an appropriate managed move.

Beautiful3 · 04/12/2021 10:23

He took something into school that he shouldn't have. You mention tgat his behaviour has been challenging at times, this would be the real reason, why they don't want him. But didn't have anything to exclude him with, your son gave them that opportunity. I would let him learn from his mistake and make the best of a bad situation. Is it worth contacting local colleges, asking if they'd take him on. They run the gases also nvqs. Is he best suited to bricklaying/decorating/car mechanics etc?

cansu · 04/12/2021 10:28

What strikes me is that you are not keen on a managed move in case he fucks about and they refuse to take him permanently. He is either a major pain in the arse who brings banned stuff into school legal or not or he is a kid who gets into low level trouble occasionally who brought something banned in on one occasion. FwIW many schools would have gone for a fixed term so the fact that yours didn't suggests that your son is more than a liw level pain in the arse. The fact that you don't think he will behave in a managed move kind of supports this. Is he remorseful? You don't mention how he feels about the behaviour or the punishment.

KateInHappyland · 04/12/2021 10:31

@Expelled123

All physical evidence pointed to nicotine pouches, they actually confiscated the product.

In a court of law, the school wouldn't have stood a chance. My son was on course to get 7's and 8's in his GCSE's. He's fucked.

I understand what everyone's saying, I do. But I will never understand how possible intent trumps evidence, and is worthy of leaving his life in tatters.

I understand, OP.

I read your post further down where you’ve said he didn’t actually realise he had a banned product. I think that changes a lot.

Am I reading it right, in that he thought it was legal but age restricted and it turned out not to be - but the school assuming he knew it was banned and therefore had intent?

I agree it doesn’t seem fair based on that and it’s such a shame that he’s now going to struggle.
Are either you or his dad stay at home parents, or does he have nearby family/grandparents he could go to during the day? If so, would homeschooling or an online tutor be an option to get him through GCSEs?

SSOYS · 04/12/2021 10:32

If it’s at all possible, I would instruct a solicitor who specialises in exclusion appeals.