My son has been permanently excluded

[Expelled123]

Name changed because details are extremely outing.

If there are any experts on here, or if anyone could offer any adice I'd be extremely grateful.

Very briefly. My son used a nicotine pouch in school (he's year 10), they are a legal but age restricted smoking cessation product, in the same way that vapes are. Having legal age restricted products are punishable by fixed exclusion, usually a couple of days.

However, the kid told him it was a banned product called Snus, which is basically chewing tobacco in a pouch.

He has been kicked out, not because it was snus, but because he believed it was snus. All evidence clearly shows it was nicotene pouches.

W.T.A.F???? He's been kicked out because he thought something was something else? How is this even legal?

The Governors upheld the exclusion, even though I coherently fought against the decision with plenty of well researched information.

He's currently at a PRU, I need him out ASAP, it's a hell hole.

I need the permanent exclusion overturned so I can get him into our local catchment school, not an easy move currently as the school can refuse him, or it will be a managed move with all the problems that brings.

The next step is an independant review panel.

A bit of background, my son's behaviour has been challenging at times, due to ADHD, nothing major though, all low level, but it's fair to say he can be a pain. I truly believe that this is the real reason behind the exclusion. He presented them with an opportunity and they leapt on it. I have made arguments regarding his SEN, to no avail.

Please help!

@prh47bridge

Possession of a banned substance

For clarity, since there seems to be some confusion about the law on this thread, you can only be prosecuted for possession or supply if the substance you possess or supply is actually a controlled drug or psychoactive substance. If it is not, your belief that it is a banned substance is irrelevant. However, if you offer to supply a psychoactive substance you commit an offence regardless of whether you supply anything and, if you do, regardless of whether the substance supplied is actually psychoactive.

The status of Snus is that it is not illegal to possess or consume it, but it is illegal to supply, offer to supply, agree to supply or possess any for supply. This applies not just to retailers. Anyone supplying Snus in the UK is breaking the law.

Having said that, the school is entitled to deal with the OP's son as if he had actually brought Snus into the school regardless of the fact that the substance was not actually Snus. Most schools would. Similarly, if a pupil brought a bag containing a white substance into school believing it was cocaine, the school would be entitled to deal with them as if they had brought cocaine into the school even if the substance was actually powdered milk. The point is that the pupil was willing to break school rules by bringing in a substance they believed was banned from school premises.

As Admission says, the central question is what the school's behaviour policy says.

Can you not attempt to supply a controlled drug, if you believe it to be a controlled drug, but it turns out to be talcum powder?

OP can you look at online schooling?

My DD has ASD and ADHD and the last place I would want her is in a PRU, so I feel for you.

I would have thought that the school would need to define "illicit substance". I had never heard of Snus until this thread and I would have not have known it was banned, although I would have obviously not thought it was a good thing to take into school.

Would they have excluded someone who brought in a bottle of vodka thinking it was water?

Or perhaps a closer analogy, bringing in an alcopop but not knowing it was alcohol?

In any event, it does seem a bit harsh but I know when ds was in Y7 some older kids in his school were found with drugs - most were given temporary exclusions but one was permanently excluded. Of course they knew they were banned substances but my point is they were not excluded.

So there does seem to be more to this even though the OP said that the school had said " we're a long way from exclusion". OP has your son ever had a temporary exclusion?

I was also going to suggest online schooling - I know you said that home schooling wasn't really an option but I wonder if a couple of terms with something like Interhigh would solve the problem and he could hopefully get back into mainstream schooling for Y11 - I know GCSE specs vary but it's not insurmountable. Also look at UTCs or 14-16 provision in local colleges.

(the one who was permanently excluded had supplied the rest)

Can you not attempt to supply a controlled drug, if you believe it to be a controlled drug, but it turns out to be talcum powder?

There is no such offence as attempting to supply a controlled drug. You could, however, be prosecuted for offering to supply a psychoactive substance, even if the substance you supply is not actually psychoactive.

@Expelled123

I've taken a few days to focus on Christmas, decorating the tree etc, because I have a younger DS who's excited about Christmas, and it's fair to say that I've not thought about much except the upcoming IRP.

Multistory, I hear what your saying, but I don't know exactly how you think he's going to get himself out of this shitshow. He has massive regrets, he deeply wishes he hadn't accepted the nicotine pouches. He's gutted because he probably won't see his school friends that he used to only see in school. He keeps begging for me to get him out of the PRU.

He wrote his own statement for the Governors' panel and read it out, he answered the questions he was asked by the governors and the DofE. He defended himself. I'm not really sure what else he was supposed to do? He keeps asking the manager of the PRU for a managed move.

He knows he fucked up in a nutshell.

But he can't do the reasearch I've done, to the degree that I've done it. He can't come on Mumsnet and ask questions, although i'll ask him if he feels he can, there's no point in me putting him on to a legal advisor and listening to reams of info because he can't take it in. What do you propose he does?

I gues you will say not to fuck up in the future, not to be so stupid, make sure he learns his lesson. Which he hopefully will and has, but that doesn't help me or him now, in the upcoming IRP meeting.

This kid has ADHD, has struggled since nursery, very bright, but no off button or common sense. I also have ADHD, and my behaviour was far worse than him in terms of risk. Obviously I don't tell him that, most people, including my Mum don't have a clue what I used to get up to (not necessarily illegal, or to do with drugs). I know how his brain works (or doesn't, as the case may be). I was extremely fortunate not to be P Excluded, because I can't imagine how my life would have turned out if I ended up at the PRU.

People with ADHD are extremely vulnerable to negative outside influence, and a host of other riskes including P Exclusion, this is why it's classed as a disability, a protected characteristic, and why they are discriminated against. This is why it's not just a case of him being an idiot. He is definitely an idiot, no question, but an idiot with a malfunctioning brain, look it up. You have to walk a mile really. Anyway, I'm waffling.

So yes, can't really sort the shitshow out for himself, so I'm stepping into the breach, like you would if he was your DS.

This. Exactly this. Your son is being discriminated against and you need to fight his corner. I can't believe people think he should get himself out of this. He can't. Utterly shockingly shit attitudes on this thread. This boy needs support, not to be thrown on the scrap heap at 14. He has made a mistake and I'm sure will make plenty more. I have a similarly aged son with ADHD and for every good decision he makes he makes 5 bad ones. He is incredibly impulsive, means well but just cannot see the long term implications of his actions. Fortunately his school seem to be supportive and I feel hopeful that one day he will get there but it's a long and tricky road for both child and parent, not least due to the attitudes of people like those of these threads, that ADHD is just bad behaviour and it's all the parents' fault which is simply not the case. Expelled, well done for supporting him. I would take advice from an education lawyer asap.

When's his IRP? Focus on putting together your son's case in respect of his ADHD. The argument about the nature of the substance is a distraction. You said he wasn't medicated from Sep to when he was PEX'd. I understand you moved and moved schools. Is it right that this school has no experience of your son whilst (properly) medicated? Did this new school know when they were handing out level 1 sanctions that he was unmedicated? Did this new school take any steps to meet his needs? What medical evidence can you get regarding the previously beneficial impact of medication in terms of improving his behaviour? Can you get a reference / letter from his former school's head teacher / SLT stating his previously-good behaviour when he was properly medicated? Have you got evidence to enable you to argue that the mistake he made was because of unmet need and that, with his needs met, he would not so behave?