My son has been permanently excluded

[Expelled123]

Name changed because details are extremely outing.

If there are any experts on here, or if anyone could offer any adice I'd be extremely grateful.

Very briefly. My son used a nicotine pouch in school (he's year 10), they are a legal but age restricted smoking cessation product, in the same way that vapes are. Having legal age restricted products are punishable by fixed exclusion, usually a couple of days.

However, the kid told him it was a banned product called Snus, which is basically chewing tobacco in a pouch.

He has been kicked out, not because it was snus, but because he believed it was snus. All evidence clearly shows it was nicotene pouches.

W.T.A.F???? He's been kicked out because he thought something was something else? How is this even legal?

The Governors upheld the exclusion, even though I coherently fought against the decision with plenty of well researched information.

He's currently at a PRU, I need him out ASAP, it's a hell hole.

I need the permanent exclusion overturned so I can get him into our local catchment school, not an easy move currently as the school can refuse him, or it will be a managed move with all the problems that brings.

The next step is an independant review panel.

A bit of background, my son's behaviour has been challenging at times, due to ADHD, nothing major though, all low level, but it's fair to say he can be a pain. I truly believe that this is the real reason behind the exclusion. He presented them with an opportunity and they leapt on it. I have made arguments regarding his SEN, to no avail.

Please help!

He's old enough to stay home alone and do online homeschooling. The issue likely is that mom knows well enough he's incredibly poorly behaved and that she can't trust him to do so. She doesn't expect him to behave at school when teachers are babysitting him, there's no way he will behave at home.

I've not RTFT so apologies of this has already been mentioned/discounted.

Have you considered your local
college's 14-16 programme? Generally it's for previously home schooled pupils, school refusers, excluded pupils, bullied pupils etc. The college support with at least Maths and English GCSEs and then pupils choose other subjects to study, sometimes even vocational rather than academic. Can thoroughly recommend it, totally transformed my DC when they attended.

My/his situation was a bit similar - an overly harsh punishment that school would just not listen to my DS about. He'd done SOME of what they accused, but not ALL of it, and so he refused to attend the isolation and it all escalated. I became so disillusioned by the schools incompetence TBH.

Best of luck with this OP.

Also, if a pupil is electively home schooled for a period and then an application to a local school is made, even if there's no room at the school they have to take the pupil after 7 weeks of further home schooling. So you could take him out the PRU to 'electively home school', make an application and he'll either get in there and then, or after 7 weeks. This is not widely advertised or known about (possibly for obvious reasons to prevent popular schools being overrun!) but it is a fact.

I have experienced both scenarios I've advised on with my own DC (this one in y8, the one above in y10). They learnt more from YouTube in the 7 weeks than in an entire term at school and this last couple of years have been such a shit show anyway, so please don't be overly worried about what it might mean for his future, exams, apprenticeships etc.

Wishing you both lots of luck and hope it works out - remember it's the school and NOT HIM, and just give him as much support and encouragement as possible.

Did you buy him the nicotine patch?

If he brought in an illegal substance I can absolutely see why he’d be expelled regardless of his previous behaviour, as most schools have a zero tolerance policy for things like that.

However if you brought it for him from a reputable shop she gave it to him as a nicotine patch to stop him smoking - then it would be unfair that he gets in trouble for something that was not his fault.

Also do you know how many teens bring in drugs, alcohol or weapons and then play dumb when they’re found. It would be difficult to believe any pupil in these circumstances unless it was brought from a reputable shop and sold as a nicotine patch.

@FenceSplinters - please see the advice I've just offered OP. There are solutions honestly!

@pumpkinpal

Your anger is misdirected.

Your son has a problem and is a problem.

Focus on that.

Bit harsh. And actually until you've been on the receiving end of a school determined to label and remove a pupil, you're not in any position to comment. Your comment here helps no one.

@Da1sycha1n thank you. That is very helpful to know.

Loads of other kids used it, just weren't caught. My son won't 'snitch', which is gutting, because arguably she wouldn't be able to exclude 10+ in one go.

Every kid who gets in serious trouble says this. I think that it's important for you to realise that a proportion of teens lie as easily as they breathe and find it incredibly difficult to take responsibility for their actions.

How can you possibly know what happened if your son has not given a full and honest account to the school? If he had then all the students would have been spoken to and they would know what product he was using.

As it is he's refused to co-operate and presumably shown no real remorse. I think the school sounds a little harsh but a high volume of disruption will be a big factor in that- for good reason.

ADHD does not cause children to be naughty. It can really harm achievement (in which case the right meds can be immensely effective) but lots of kids deal with those difficulties without causing damage to the learning of others.

@Da1sycha1n Also, if a pupil is electively home schooled for a period and then an application to a local school is made, even if there's no room at the school they have to take the pupil after 7 weeks of further home schooling. So you could take him out the PRU to 'electively home school', make an application and he'll either get in there and then, or after 7 weeks. This is not widely advertised or known about (possibly for obvious reasons to prevent popular schools being overrun!) but it is a fact.

Really! @prh47bridge can you confirm this? Surely there are caveats?

How is he academically? Would he benefit from a more vocational based programme? There's specialist ones for those in his position, often teaching a trade plus maths and English. Alternatively is online school a possibility or is he not self motivated. Unfortunately he did break the rules but you can asked for him to be placed elsewhere

You say that his behaviour is low level but that he's unlikely to manage to behave for 12 weeks which is confusing.

My son vaped at school when he was 15. It was the first time he'd misbehaved and he was suspended and had Saturday detention. If it wasn't his first offence he would have been dealt with harsher but he took the punishment and didn't complain (which was unlike his behaviour at home at the time) and it was forgotten about and didn't affect Sixth Form and university applications.

Schools do suspend for stuff like selling herbs and pretending it's cannabis sort of things. Where did he get the nicotine patch ?

@Da1sycha1n That’s not true!
There is provision if needed via the FAP, but not in the way you describe, and does not necessarily result in a place at your preferred school.

Sorry for you all OP.

Why is the PRU awful? My experience of those is that generally they are excellent at supporting students with additional needs like ADHD. In a smaller environment with more dedicated teaching there's usually a better outcome for the student.

It isn't fair but I know PRUs are getting a lot of this at the moment, students schools cannot cope with (usually with some kind of issue like ASD and ADHD) .

My sister works as a SENCO in a PRU and says she gets kids schools refer to as "unreachable" who are totally different in a small dedicated support unit. She goes mad about the way schools refer to these students who with the right support achieve so much.

[quote Imitatingdory]@Da1sycha1n That’s not true!
There is provision if needed via the FAP, but not in the way you describe, and does not necessarily result in a place at your preferred school.[/quote]
It is true It happened when my DC was in y8. They have to have been previously electively home-schooled, out of conventional education for 7 weeks and the school has to take them.

@Imitatingdory - I'll try and find a link to the LEA/DfE guidance that I found years ago (having previously gone round in circles with the local schools and LEA). I was astounded at the time, but have subsequently advised other parents of this and they too have got their children in to their preferred/local, often 'full' school.

No it isn’t, not in the way you describe, as I’m sure @prh47bridge or @admission can confirm.

Here is the FAP rules. I believe the previous version specifically mentioned EHE pupils under L, but not in the way you have posted.

Could you remove him and do home education activities?
Some colleges will take home educated 14 year olds for certain courses but not all.
Maybe you all just need to take the pressure off

I do think there is a lot of truth in the school having decided they don't want a pupil there and a situation presenting itself where the pupil is neither given the benefit of the doubt nor given a fair hearing.
(My DS was recently suspended for an incident due to past behaviour. There was a group of kids (not all friends) and one of my DS's mates starting having a verbal go at another child (to do with an impending criminal case against that child. I expect it was pretty unpleasant stuff. My DS was nowhere near his mate and didn't so much as open his mouth.
Teacher tells DS's mate and DS to accompany him to see head - both suspended. There were at least 15 independent witnesses. Two of whom are friends' kids (both don't really like my DS but told their parents they couldn't understand why my DS was suspended.)
Explained to DS that he had been in trouble in the past and it was easy to scapegoat him. He has been working hard to turn things around so it was galling that no teacher would believe him. )

The thing I have found best for my DS was he is now doing maths and English and an apprenticeship in Yr11. School is a terrible environment for him.I could write an essay on why, the teachers who told him from day 1 he was a worthless failure, the contempt, his mental health problems, low self esteem etc. But that won't help you.

I still live in fear he will be excluded this year.

What is helpful to know is that there are many more options out there than I even knew existed. I probably would have discounted many of those off the cuff had we got hit total desperation but there may be a solution out there which you hadn't considered which will help.

@Imitatingdory

No it isn’t, not in the way you describe, as I’m sure *@prh47bridge or @admission* can confirm.

Here is the FAP rules. I believe the previous version specifically mentioned EHE pupils under L, but not in the way you have posted.

I don't really want to de-rail by continuing to insist I'm right and can't find what I'm looking for as there's so much COVID/schools to look through, but it honestly did happen exactly how I've described, and there was even a question on the form about being 'out of education for 7+ weeks' Possibly it may have something to do with the fact we had re-located to a different LEA, I don't know? Possibly things have changed as it was a few years ago, so apologies if anyone has been misled (but it definitely happened!).

However, after both of the experiences I've had with mine I'd recommend the 14-16 College provision - it totally transformed my son's experience and was amazing for him.

[quote TeenMinusTests]@Da1sycha1n Also, if a pupil is electively home schooled for a period and then an application to a local school is made, even if there's no room at the school they have to take the pupil after 7 weeks of further home schooling. So you could take him out the PRU to 'electively home school', make an application and he'll either get in there and then, or after 7 weeks. This is not widely advertised or known about (possibly for obvious reasons to prevent popular schools being overrun!) but it is a fact.

Really! @prh47bridge can you confirm this? Surely there are caveats?[/quote]
There is no such requirement in England in either the Admissions Code or the law. I can't speak for other parts of the UK.

“ Most children get through school without any behaviour points. ”

I think this really depends on the school. My year 7 son got a behaviour point for forgetting a book. And a detention for not doing his homework. Obviously he should do his homework (and we’ve said that to him) nut I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t have resulted in a detention when I was at school (approx 3000 years ago).

It’s very very hard and expensive for schools to permanently exclude and they usually try very hard not to as don’t want a permanent exclusion on their records and they have to pay a lot of money to permanent exclude… soooo knowing that we’ve been trying to permanently exclude a student who has done arguably 100 things worse than your son and our governors refused the exclusion, I feel there must be more to it than you described?

Have you got an EHCP?

@pumpkinpal

Your anger is misdirected.

Your son has a problem and is a problem.

Focus on that.

This. Focus on your son.

This school has permanently excluded him - it’s done. Not a decision they take lightly. They need to prove a certain level and they have taken SEN into account. End of.

His GCSEs are fucked ? Not yet it’s December into year 10- speak to your son. New school 12 weeks with counselling support applying for EHCP etc inclusion team engage with new school - do whatever they ask. But Sen or not he’s 15 or there abouts so need to understand this is on him - he fucked up - if he gets a new school and second chance - don’t duck this up as there won’t be a third.

He shouldn’t be taking tobacco or anything other then his school books and pe into school - I would have taken his phone, and all his privileges away from him.

Direct your anger at him. Change the firing line.

So blaming adhd or Sen or the fact it was ‘only tobacco’ and start understanding he’s over 10 - because I didn’t realise x y z was illegal
Or know what it was - is not going to wash in court before a judge - this is a life lesson a huge one - take it

prh47bridge thank you for confirming that it isn’t the case.

Why do you think the PRU is a hell hole?

Why don't you try working with them and your ds to get him through to Easter, with a move to another school planned from there.