Marking in state/independent

[Wipingsides]

How often are your teens school books actually marked by teachers? My DC go to what's classed as 'good' state school & seem to be doing ok but the majority of work seems to be self assessed or peer marked. Just the odd assessment or actual test seems to reach teachers' eyes. Is this normal these days?! Would also be interested in hearing what experiences those in the private/independent sector have with regards this...

Just because you can’t see any marking doesn’t mean the teacher hasn’t seen the work. I work in a state comp and our dept policy is that we don’t mark student books at all. I do read their work sometimes though and during lessons dc I might give verbal feedback to individual students. I might read lots of their work and give whole class feedback. Writing in each students book regularly is a totally unrealistic expectation —from parents—

I work in a state comp and our dept policy is that we don’t mark student books at all

Wow. That doesn't seem good? But I am probably very old fashioned!

Do they never write essays? Mine write a lot of essays that are then marked.

This weekend I have one set of class work essays and two sets of coursework essays to mark. I marked a set of classwork essays on Tuesday night for another class.

Kikkomam our results are in the top 5% of the country for my subject (science). We know where teachers’ time is best spent and it’s not writing in dcs books!

@Debroglie

Kikkomam our results are in the top 5% of the country for my subject (science). We know where teachers’ time is best spent and it’s not writing in dcs books!

Well that's amazing. Obviously no essays in science!

@Kikkomam I asked a very high flying teacher friend about this today when out walking. She favours a hybrid method with a small amount of teacher homework marking - this is what ofstead and parents like apparently but the research shows the time spent on it doesn’t correspond to much students progress. She says that peer marking, class evaluation of homework and self marking is much more effective. She says that she prefers to spend the time planning top class lessons which have a much greater effect on a students progress. Homework is often just reinforcement - what she wants is really really good class teaching, good note taking from students and teaching children how to work/ study. She says she learns most about their progress and where they are struggling by walking around the class during lessons and examining the students at work (therefore not copying homework from a computer or friend) and then making sure that every child answers a lesson each class and that she wants to help each child to feel confident to put their hand up to ask for help. Sounds like good modern effective methods to me.

Hullo!

So, there is overwhelming evidence that not only is homework largely pointless (there is a caveat with some subjects, and some types of homework), but that traditional marking isn't particularly helpful to either students or the teachers.

You do need to do some so you're aware of students' problem areas (though, actually, it's usually more effective to pick this up in class), but 'whole class feedback' or self assessment is where the best learning happens.

Independent schools have to do marking, however, because parents need to think they're paying for something. They love loads of indiscriminate red pen on their children's books- plus, there's fewer students in the classes, so it's logistically easier. When I worked in a nice independent we used to refer to marking as 'random red pen time'.

Independent schools have to do marking, however, because parents need to think they're paying for something. They love loads of indiscriminate red pen on their children's books- plus, there's fewer students in the classes, so it's logistically easier. When I worked in a nice independent we used to refer to marking as 'random red pen time'

I have never seen any of my child's marked work

I know she gets a lot of marked essays though, with percentages. This is GCSE. Seems very good prep for exams.

Small classes though of course

Marking is mostly a waste of time. This has been proven by research and any teacher can tell you anecdotally what effect marking has on the progress of their class. What works is having time to plan and address misconceptions meaningfully.

Marking essays can't possibly be a waste of time. How else is the student going to learn how to structure one? I can see teachers in big classes don't have the time to do it. Dd in a small class has all essays (English, history, rs,) marked thoroughly and they get great results.

Not marking homework makes no sense, surely setting homework is to see how the child is getting on when working independently? My DS is at a top indie, some work is peer marked but essays and languages are always fully marked.

I think the trouble is that it's all very well not marking things and teaching the class as a whole to be able to work out problems, all that is great, but at the end of the day our exam system is straightforward and traditional. It will be a single student being asked to write essays in a set time. They can learn how to do this very effectively when guided. That must mean marking essays set for homework. I can see it might be different for sciences.

I teach in a top 100, Ofsted ‘Outstanding’, State secondary. We mark books once per fortnight at least, but just homework and assessments. Class work is peer or self marked with green pen, through our verbal feedback and class discussion. When we mark, we include positive feedback comments, targets to improve (both just a sentence each) and literacy corrections. Assessments are marked with grading criteria attached and highlighted for what they are achieving and how they must improve. Hope that helps!

@Kikkomam all the research shows that class size has a negligible effect on student’s progress. What does have a huge effect is gold standard teaching with teachers who have access to brilliant training opportunities and good management. Sadly many of the ‘tired’ second rate indies don’t have this.

Marking essays can't possibly be a waste of time. How else is the student going to learn how to structure one?

By spending time in lessons looking at essays and discussing how these models are structured

By practising planning together - doesn't have to leave to an actual written essay, as plans indicate structure

By look at each other's plans and discussing them, then amending

By a teacher looking through work with a student and talking to them about it

By looking at exam mark schemes and picking out what is expected of them when writing an essay, learning how that might influence the development of an argument in a longer piece of writing

By ordering a set of pre-written paragraphs in a lesson to demonstrate understanding of how an argument develops

By improving an adequate piece of writing that is given to students by the teacher

...None of these things is the teacher marking an essay. All of them can support the development of essay-writing skills. All require students to demonstrate developing understanding. Looking at a marked piece of their own writing, unless done with elements of response, is a largely passive experience and as a measure of teacher effort-effectiveness, is not efficient

My daughter is at an academic independent school. There have been teachers who haven’t marked her work for a term! I always taught in state schools and in none of the schools I worked in would I have got away with that.
It depends on the school’s marking policy and the diligence of individual teachers, I think.

I detest peer and self assessment and I don’t think it’s very effective. It’s used to try to manage teacher workload.

@Cornhill

I detest peer and self assessment and I don’t think it’s very effective. It’s used to try to manage teacher workload.

Not if it's done well, with clear criteria for students to assess against.

That’s what I’ve heard so many times MrsHamlet, and we don’t all have to agree, but I remain unconvinced

3 assessments per term. So I mark roughly 150 books every 2 weeks for the 5 year groups I teach. I think 2 a term is enough, my classes also self assess and peer assess in those other weeks.

Every two weeks has roughly been the timescale in most schools I’ve worked at. But I do know at my current school ‘assessed work’ is quite loose, so in theory you could go a full school year with only marking once per half term.

@Cornhill you clearly aren’t doing it properly! It is used to redirect teacher workload towards the things that really make a difference and away from the things that parents think make a difference (see also expensive smart uniform which again research shows has no discernible effect on good grades, only on pleasing parents!)

Sadly many of the ‘tired’ second rate indies don’t have this

Good job for dd that she's not at a tired second rate indie then 😂