Private Schools- worth it?

[SparkyPants]

My dad is coming to the end of yr7 in a local senior school.
It's not been great (shitty year accounted for- still not great)
As with many, we've seen a Massive shift in personality, drive, ambition and desire to engage.
We've done our sims and can send her to a local private school.
I'm looking for people's experiences and perspectives please!?

Totally agree if you have engaged and supportive parents, then a child is highly likely to do as well academically at a good state school as at any private school.

Most people I know who are paying for private school admit they are largely paying for an ‘overall nicer experience’ than for better academics. Which I think is fine if you can comfortably afford the fees but I find difficult to justify if paying the fees is a struggle.

I’ve got quite a few friends who ended up downsizing their house/having fewer children than they wanted/staying in higher paid jobs that they really don’t enjoy etc. purely to be able to pay for private school. Mostly they went to private schools themselves and say they would feel so guilty if they couldn’t do the same for their children. And this was regardless of whether the particular private school they chose was better/worse than their available state option. I think not imposing that future potential guilt on your children is one good reason to stick to state schools if nothing else 😂

Interestingly, my boss attended private school but chose not to send his own children. So it works both ways.

Totally agree if you have engaged and supportive parents, then a child is highly likely to do as well academically at a good state school as at any private school
I'd say I was engaged and supportive but my dcs listen to their peers and teachers more than me (or appear to) so school ethos is crucial

@IrishGirl2020

Totally agree if you have engaged and supportive parents, then a child is highly likely to do as well academically at a good state school as at any private school.

Most people I know who are paying for private school admit they are largely paying for an ‘overall nicer experience’ than for better academics. Which I think is fine if you can comfortably afford the fees but I find difficult to justify if paying the fees is a struggle.

I’ve got quite a few friends who ended up downsizing their house/having fewer children than they wanted/staying in higher paid jobs that they really don’t enjoy etc. purely to be able to pay for private school. Mostly they went to private schools themselves and say they would feel so guilty if they couldn’t do the same for their children. And this was regardless of whether the particular private school they chose was better/worse than their available state option. I think not imposing that future potential guilt on your children is one good reason to stick to state schools if nothing else 😂

I would say we are supportive and engaged to some extent, but mostly it has to come from the pupil themselves. I think helicopter parenting (which my friend is a big fan of) can only get you so far and her teen sons are now starting to rebel against it.

We provide space, equipment, time and resources to our dcs and will support if needed by contacting school etc but don’t help them with work or hassle them to complete work.

We are lucky one is hard working and conscientious, the other not so hardworking but still gets pretty good grades.

I wonder if they’d have had more extra curricular and sports opportunities at private school and possibly less of the children who don’t want to be there and refuse to work.

I don’t doubt they pay for the nicer experience, we were tempted but couldn’t afford for 3. The smaller classes would be a big advantage.

Hmm I don’t know small classes are necessarily a good thing we are currently riding the wave of year 7 friendship drama and having a deep pool of other potential friends is crucial if your friendship group kicks you out for no reason as can happen when you are 12! I would worry if a class were too small particularly for girls. My sister had a miserable time at primary trapped in a toxic friendship group as only 4 girls and one was very troubled. Small is good is not necessarily right.

DD goes to an independent secondary school. She is happy. I don't think teaching is necessarily better than at the local outstanding comprehensive; but she is having a nice learning experience: Smaller classes, better facilities,more trips, more extra curricular activities, better food, not disruption in class, surrounded by other students who want to learn.

It depends on what other options you have and your finances

It's hard to say. The ones who say they make it to oxbridge etc from local comp, those are naturally bright and would have done well anywhere anyway, in a high pressure environment or more relaxed non selective one etc.

The only thing that annoys me (anecdotally) are those that slag off perfectly good local state schools to justify their own choices. Afraid I do speak up on that.

If they have no experience of said school. Fair enough if their child has gone there but private school parents parroting half truths about local schools they have zero direct experience of really grinds my gears.

The teaching is often better at private

Not because the teachers are better per se
But becuae they’re less stressed and able to really “teach” rather than often a heavy load of crowd control.

Allowed to be more creative at private. For example they want to suddenly take the children outside - they can. A dozen forms to fill and hoops to jump through at state

I don’t know how true this is now but my DS was a bright, clever girl who got into Oxbridge from a bad state school many moons ago. The thing was, yes she did it and this may prove that you can thrive anywhere except that it wasn’t like that…. she got to Oxbridge with large gaps in her knowledge base because our school hadn’t finished the A level syllabus etc and she struggled throughout her degree for this reason. Many others failed to live up to their potential I believe as there was no aspiration for any of us.

Hopefully that has changed, but I do think you shouldn’t underestimate a good school, private or state.

@Scaredycat87

The teaching is often better at private

Not because the teachers are better per se
But becuae they’re less stressed and able to really “teach” rather than often a heavy load of crowd control.

Allowed to be more creative at private. For example they want to suddenly take the children outside - they can. A dozen forms to fill and hoops to jump through at state

As @MsTSwift said, parroting untruths about state schools of which you have no experience is really annoying. Would love to see your evidence of the 12 forms you assert my DD's state secondary school teachers would be required to complete before taking the children outside!

@Scaredycat87 what a load of nonsense. No forms have to filled in at my DD’s primary if they want to go and use their amazing outdoor classroom, vegetable patch, garden sensory area, large field, pond or forest school area which they leave wild to encourage wildlife. As for creativity they have choir, bands, art clubs, pottery kiln.
Please EVERYONE - compare one school to another school not sweeping, often untrue comparisons of sectors.

Scaredycat total tripe. If anything, teachers at private school have a blinkered view of one, academic approach to teaching rather than the creative ways you need to think outside the box to reach every child in a less selective environment.

I agree with the above posts about state school that they do have an option of outdoors teaching and good range of extra curriculars as per our experience.
While checking private secondary school in and around London for my dd, I couldnt find much difference between the class size too. The private sector had 4 to 5 forms with form size varying from 25 to 30 whereas state sector had 4 to 8 forms of 30 students each. As children are taught in form groups, number of students in forms were similar in state and private.

Interesting topic.

Both DH and I boarded from aged 13 and loved it. We'd automatically assumed we would do the same for our DCs. DD1 went to state from till year 6 when she sat and passed the pretest for a few of the big name boarding schools. At the same time she also sat the 11plus for the local grammar school which is almost impossible to get into. We let her sit because her friends were doing it and she wanted to and also we had tutored her at home for the independent school exams so there was no harm in trying. We assumed she would go the the local comp and then leave after year 8 to go board but when she passed the eleven plus we sent her to the grammar school.

This is her last term in year8 and looking back, DH and I agree that if we knew Grammar school would have been this good we would Have looked closer. Academics are comparable. Co-curricular stuff that she is ACTUALLY involved in is well catered for and she has a lovely set of friends. I dont normally compare over the top facilities because it make no difference if you dont use it. The experience she will have at boarding school will obviously be different but as to whether the difference is worth the money is a different subject. I still want her to board and she is so excited about it. DS1
going through the process now but 100% state has exceeded my expectations. Now I do realise its grammar school so slightly different but still.

@Puffalicious

Scaredycat total tripe. If anything, teachers at private school have a blinkered view of one, academic approach to teaching rather than the creative ways you need to think outside the box to reach every child in a less selective environment.

And this is also absolute rubbish. No, really. You are 100% wrong.

@Bryonyshcmyony
Some state schools have brilliant outdoor space. Some don't.
Some private schools use more modern, creative approaches to teaching. Some don't.
For every aspect that is true of one school in a sector, the opposite aspect can be true of another school in the very same sector. It is why you can't compare schools based purely on whether they are paid for my the state or paid for by parents. There is SO much more to it than that! Senior leadership. Governing board. State of finances (however the school is paid, by state or by parents.) Facilities. Training programs. Reputation in the local community. Reputation in the wider community. Each element is changeable within a school - a change of headship // chair of governors can completely change a school.

Bryonyschmyony in MY opinion I'm not wrong. In YOURS I am. What's with the 100%? It adds nothing to your argument.

What's your experience? I work in an inner city school which has many high indicators of multiple deprivation. We seriously buck the trend and our kids have a brilliant education. We often say that the teachers in the relatively nearby private school would die if they we were to swap for a bit. We would have our feet up.

What's your experience?

Hoopa speaks absolute sense.

Good, oversubscribed private schools have excellent teachers. They wouldn't be successful if they didn't.

Unlike some, I can handle the fact that this doesn't mean there aren't some lovely, creative, patient teachers at state schools.

@Bryonyshcmyony
Good oversubscribed private schools have SOME excellent teachers. Like all schools, they have the full range of teacher types. Some are hanging on for retirement. Some wish they were doing something else. Some are wedded to the job. Some hate the parents with a passion and have nick names for them. Some love the job with a passion. The vast majority are doing a fairly good solid job, just like at most schools (and like most jobs across the land.) They might have access to good training, they might not. They might have a teaching qualification, they might not. You can bet your bottom dollar that parents moan about them just like they do at any school. They do, most of the time, have smaller classes, that is the closest to a universal truth you can find about private school teachers I am afraid and even that isn't always true. Take if from someone who knows!

You only have to look at Clifton College's recent atrocity, to realise that private schools (like all schools) can also have some VERY dodgy teachers. The teacher there went out with a teacher colleague of mine and also taught my brother. Absolutely lovely, charming chap. And in his spare time he wired up videos to watch the boys in his care naked in the shower.

[quote Hoopa]@Bryonyshcmyony
Good oversubscribed private schools have SOME excellent teachers. Like all schools, they have the full range of teacher types. Some are hanging on for retirement. Some wish they were doing something else. Some are wedded to the job. Some hate the parents with a passion and have nick names for them. Some love the job with a passion. The vast majority are doing a fairly good solid job, just like at most schools (and like most jobs across the land.) They might have access to good training, they might not. They might have a teaching qualification, they might not. You can bet your bottom dollar that parents moan about them just like they do at any school. They do, most of the time, have smaller classes, that is the closest to a universal truth you can find about private school teachers I am afraid and even that isn't always true. Take if from someone who knows!

You only have to look at Clifton College's recent atrocity, to realise that private schools (like all schools) can also have some VERY dodgy teachers. The teacher there went out with a teacher colleague of mine and also taught my brother. Absolutely lovely, charming chap. And in his spare time he wired up videos to watch the boys in his care naked in the shower.[/quote]
Why are you talking to me as though I live on Mars? I have educated 4 in the private sector with a bit of state along the way. I've had a few really good state teachers, but also some bloody awful ones. Dd2 went to our local state for 2 years and had 5 different maths teachers. I think 1 of them was good.

I know you won't believe me but I am genuinely glad there are these amazing state schools out there as no doubt I'll have plenty of grandchildren who will need to use them at some point.

I don’t get the difference in teacher argument they all train at the same places and are the basically the same cohort some good some less so. My sister teaches her mates in the private sector all trained via the same route as her and aren’t all “better” by dint of going to a private school. It’s an odd argument.

I've not said they are better. My experience is that my dcs have had the same excellent teachers throughout their GCSEs and a levels. There is barely any churn. Teachers in our state school didn't seem to last 5 minutes.