I need to talk really frankly about money and fees for private secondary

[EmbMonStu]

I’d like to apologise at the outset for speaking so gauchely and brashly about money, and for referencing large amounts of money when some people are going through such an awful time. I have literally no one to discuss this with because who can you talk actual amounts with IRL?

Also, I recognise my privilege, we are extremely lucky, my kids will be fine whatever we do and I’m aware this is not a real “problem”.

DH and I both from very working class backgrounds, first in family to Uni etc. I am trying to figure out whether private secondary will be an option for us financially. I’m looking at Hampton School as an example.

DS1 (very very bright and sporty) is in year 4. By the time he enters secondary school we should, in theory and assuming nothing changes have about £85k in the bank and another 25k in “really mustn’t touch it but can break glass if true emergency” money. This will come incrementally from savings rather than a lump sum.

We will be saving around £25k a year from salaries at this point also.

I estimate fees, lunches and transport to a secondary school like Hampton will cost around 25k a year. So essentially, we will be saving nothing.

We will still be able to spend around 12k a year on holidays, have lots of fun money etc, private health insurance etc. We certainly won’t be scrimping, but will be saving very little, perhaps 4-500 a month.

DS2 is four years behind DS1 so would start in 2027. At this point DH should be earning considerably more than he does now and fees will be less of a concern.

If he dies or other disaster strikes we will have to pull the children out and sell house anyway, life insurance not withstanding.

So basically, is this enough? Would you spend all the money you would otherwise save, on fees? Leaving you with a nest egg of this amount? If you could still a nice lifestyle?

Also we live in a semi detached in a fairly nice area, but I wouldn’t want to be a poor relation in the school. We wouldn’t probably be able to move if committed to fees, although very happy in the house currently.

Thanks if you’ve got this far. This is all very alien to me and I feel I need a steer!

[quote IdesMarchof]@Frodont agreed I found it astonishing. It was like he couldn’t make small talk because there was no common reference point[/quote]
Tbf I went to a very average state secondary and I don't feel the need to make small talk with taxi drivers either

@Frodont if a taxi driver asked you “are you off on holiday or something like that” then you could probably respond in a way that didn’t make you sound like a duke from 1800 meeting a street beggar!

The weird thing was he was actively trying to speak to people when these incidents happen.

Reminded me a bit of common people by Pulp (cringe)

Should say my dm (boarding school etc) is not like that at all. But some private school educated adults do seem to be

I went state my dds go private so no beef with private schools at all

Interestingly MIL who was brought up very poor, parents were servants, has no idea how to talk to taxi drivers or cleaners. She became a school teacher and her interactions with people she regards as uneducated are mind-blowing. She once handed my cleaner the breakfast dishes! My mother who was privately educated, a professionally trained ballerina, spent three years in Paris, would have said "gosh you've tons to do I'll deal with these and make us a cup of tea". And with a giggle.

My mum (left school at 15, absolutely dirt poor) wouldn't have a clue how to speak to a taxi driver. She is self conscious talking to anyone. My MIL, privately educated and rather posh, can make anyone feel as though she's genuinely interested in them.

Just wanted to check in after a VERY long shift. So much to read and take in and I definitely will. With some wine! Thanks so much all for your thoughts. I’m sort of thinking I know where we are actually which is largely thanks to this thread,

I do also know other very wealthy privately educated people who can talk to a very wide range of people so must also relate to attitude and parenting

This. If an adult can't make small talk with a taxi driver about the weather, traffic, local landmarks as you pass them, the uselessness of politicians, or Brexit; either they're reasonably far out on the autism spectrum or else they don't want to, probably because they think it's not worthwhile. If the latter, I think that attitude is driven more by what they learn from their parents than from their schoolmates.

@user149799568

I do also know other very wealthy privately educated people who can talk to a very wide range of people so must also relate to attitude and parenting

This. If an adult can't make small talk with a taxi driver about the weather, traffic, local landmarks as you pass them, the uselessness of politicians, or Brexit; either they're reasonably far out on the autism spectrum or else they don't want to, probably because they think it's not worthwhile. If the latter, I think that attitude is driven more by what they learn from their parents than from their schoolmates.

I often don't want to! I'm not autistic and have good manners. I don't think feeling that you don't have to burble away to a taxi driver makes you anything. A friendly hallo, about 30 secs of chat and a thank you is fine!

I think age 40 is a difficult decade. I thought I was sorted at the end of my thirties. Great life, great job, great kids. Serious illnesses, several major deaths, caring responsibilities have all impacted on my health and finances, I have basically ruined my career by taking so much time off to care for family members. My mental health is poor. My previous career trajectory is now gone and I'm lucky to have a job at all. I am also so so tired and worn down, the thought of having to push on and make partner or whatever is a nightmare. I know this sounds like a tale of woe - but it doesn't take much for things to change drastically. Being secure and comfortable counts for a lot sometimes.

Hear hear, @Candleabra. Bad things happen to good people all the time :(

Even have a friend from uni distressed his daughter is choosing to do medicine as her earning potentially doesn’t justify the 200k+ in schooling that has been spentgrin. You need to take indie schools off a pedestal a little and choose your next steps wisely

Equally there are many people who chose to privately educate their children not to "buy grades" nor to "increase their earning potential" but merely because they value the educational and childhood experience it brings.

I don't know anyone obsessed with bang for buck. I know mine will end up with grades good enough for RG unis and a love of learning and that's good enough for me.

OP, I think you can definitely afford it if that's your choice. We have done private secondary for twice as many children on less income.

Just feel I should say, on the subject of Hampton maths, I think the top 2 sets probably account for about 75% of the year group. IIRC there are top, middle and bottom sets with for example 3 parallel classes in the top set, 6/8 in the middle set and 3 in the bottom. Those numbers are from memory but the weighting won't be miles out, so the vast majority of boys do have the option of A level maths.

I advise going to school Open Days when they are back on to look at the local schools and the indies. You will get a feel of things, maybe you will come out feeling like "over my dead body", or "I can see him in there". Schools varies greatly even within the same area.

I am in a different part of London to you, and have 2 girls yr4 and 6. We have similar income to yours, half of the mortgage payment and more equity in the house. We have done the sums and we can't afford privates. But my girls are closer in age and there will be a number of years with 2 lots of fess to pay, 3-4k a month after tax is a scary amount. We also don't anticipate a huge increase in incomes in the coming years like you hubby does.

We are comfortable financially, saving and topping up pensions. Most of our family live abroad so we can see travel to see them. Me and my siblings went to private schools, it was a stressful time for my mum as she worried about not having enough money. My mum was going through the menopause which made her anxious (we didn't know at the time), and my sis being a rebellious teenager didn't help. Actually it would be the same for me, menopausal and have teenager girls, also elderly parents to look after, I don't want financial stress to go on top of that.

Our local schools are ok, and most parents from our primary are happy with them, and I will be happy to send mine there, the facilities are tired but students seems happy and getting good results. My older one has done the 11+ and most likely get a place through music aptitude in a semi-selective school out of borough. That school is not getting better results than the local ones, but it has better facilities, just generally brighter, cleaner and have more outdoor space. We might have to move house tho to make the commute easier for her.

Sound like you can definitely afford it, and you could make a few tweaks to take the pressure off in case anything happens. Go through the process and see what happens. Keep an open mind about the super selective. We chose one over top indie offers school and haven't regretted it

*top indie offers

I think you can easily afford it. We are considering a private school for Sixth Form. It didn’t seem DD would need it until now.

I definitely agree with the "look at the schools on offer" rather than pure state v private.

My DC go to private school - they are only in nursery/ yr1 and I agonised over the decision to send them to a private school (DH was 100% for the private school) as I didn't want that to affect our lives in other ways. We are on the outskirts of London in a Grammar area and so we have decided to spend the money now in the hope that they either get a Grammar place or are bright enough to pass an entrance exam into a reasonable private school for secondary - there are no decent comps where we are (although this could change in the next 5 years).

The state primary school our DC would have gone to is huge - bigger than my old secondary school - and would not have suited my anxious DS. It is an outstanding school that people vie to get into but on both visits I could not gel with it - there were children roaming the halls, the head has changed 3 times in as many years etc. Personal choice, everyone I talk to loves the school.

Their current school is smaller (but still 50-60 DC per year), non selective (I mean, tests for 3yr olds?) and very nurturing which is just what DS needs. He is doing well there.

Money - we have a similar income to you with it more skewed toward my DH. I work part time at the moment and will pick up my hours when DD is in full time school.

We pay fees a year in advance and get a 5% discount. There is also a 10% sibling discount. Fees around £14k for yr1 and £5k (part time) for nursery.

We are in the process of moving and so we will get another offset mortgage (I recommend this btw if your income is erratic, you can draw down money if need be or offset more if that bonus comes in). We will have around £150k offset which can be used for fees if needed. Alternatively, we might see how much discount we get for paying fees 3/4years in advance and making a lump sum payment to the school - it gives us flexibility.
So we have about £10k/mth budget is:
Mortgage £1,300 (repayment on £275k)
Offset savings £4K (school fees and holidays)
Bills and food £1,500
Fun (clothes, kids' activities, Christmas etc) £1,200
Pension and ISAs £2k

The problem is you never really know what the future holds. I would not have agreed to the school if it meant we had to eat beans on toast. I am not hugely materialistic, I don't care what car we drive etc.