I need to talk really frankly about money and fees for private secondary

[EmbMonStu]

I’d like to apologise at the outset for speaking so gauchely and brashly about money, and for referencing large amounts of money when some people are going through such an awful time. I have literally no one to discuss this with because who can you talk actual amounts with IRL?

Also, I recognise my privilege, we are extremely lucky, my kids will be fine whatever we do and I’m aware this is not a real “problem”.

DH and I both from very working class backgrounds, first in family to Uni etc. I am trying to figure out whether private secondary will be an option for us financially. I’m looking at Hampton School as an example.

DS1 (very very bright and sporty) is in year 4. By the time he enters secondary school we should, in theory and assuming nothing changes have about £85k in the bank and another 25k in “really mustn’t touch it but can break glass if true emergency” money. This will come incrementally from savings rather than a lump sum.

We will be saving around £25k a year from salaries at this point also.

I estimate fees, lunches and transport to a secondary school like Hampton will cost around 25k a year. So essentially, we will be saving nothing.

We will still be able to spend around 12k a year on holidays, have lots of fun money etc, private health insurance etc. We certainly won’t be scrimping, but will be saving very little, perhaps 4-500 a month.

DS2 is four years behind DS1 so would start in 2027. At this point DH should be earning considerably more than he does now and fees will be less of a concern.

If he dies or other disaster strikes we will have to pull the children out and sell house anyway, life insurance not withstanding.

So basically, is this enough? Would you spend all the money you would otherwise save, on fees? Leaving you with a nest egg of this amount? If you could still a nice lifestyle?

Also we live in a semi detached in a fairly nice area, but I wouldn’t want to be a poor relation in the school. We wouldn’t probably be able to move if committed to fees, although very happy in the house currently.

Thanks if you’ve got this far. This is all very alien to me and I feel I need a steer!

Regarding priorities, I’m fairly clear that an independent school fairly far down the list for us. We both went to awful state schools, and have nice fulfilling lives. DS1 has a really good work ethic as someone mentioned above and I am sure would well anywhere. DS2 is a really interesting character and I can see him living on a houseboat handcrafting bongs for a living and growing micro herbs and loving life regardless.

I’d much rather have an “easy” life - shop where I want, buy whatever clothes and shoes the children need, let them do whatever clubs they want, have lovely holidays and buy smelly candles for fifty quid. And have enough money in the bank to feel safe. The school fees would only be considered IF we could do all that and pay the fees.

After your recent update, I would personally encourage DS1 to try for Tiffins (I assume?) and also some independent schools as a backup.
So DS2 will start school a year before DS1 starts A-levels? If DS2 doesn't get into Tiffin, there's always the private option and you could then give DS1 the option to move into private for A-level?

Have you considered the City of London boys school? A lot cheaper than Hamptons and the student body is very down to earth and grounded. You won't stick out.

How would you ‘stick out’ when there are children there on 100px bursaries? I know lots of people who have kids at private school. None of them have 12k to spend on holidays every year

At our private school it would have been difficult not finding someone spending £12,000 a year on holidays. And that would just have been on the flights! Not all private schools are the same!

I think it sounds fine, but have I read it right that at 40 your DH doesn’t have a pension at all?! That really needs looking at.

Yes @Chillypenguin he does have a pension from when he was employed but hasn’t paid in to anything for a 18 months. We will get that sorted this year though.

@blowonitthen that’s a brilliant suggestion thank you.

@Frequentflier I will take a look thanks.

@NoToMisogyny I honestly wouldn’t know because I don’t know anything at all about private schools.

What are you trying to achieve by sending them private? That would be my first question

My ex dp went to Hampton from a non posh background and loved it. He is a lovely guy and a good advert for the school

I’m trying to achieve my children having a really nice life filled with ease and comfort and joy. Secondary school seems a pinch point which threatens that maybe? If I can send them to a school which celebrates excellence in beautiful grounds with friends with good connections that might be better than a concrete block on an A road?

That’s it really, I’m not fussed about them getting As or anything.

Did I just read that right? You will be saving 25k from salaries each year?savings?

You. Have. More. Than. Enough

We moved ds to a similar school aged 8. We had £100k in the bank, dh had life insurance and if the chips were down we could have sold the semi in zone 2 and bought a much cheaper house 6/7 miles away to free up the equity for both childrens' school fees. Fortunately DH's career and earnings were at the start of an upward trajectory.

However one factor to account for is the rise in fees: £8.5k (all in including expenses when ds started) £21k when he left. A school not far from. Hampton.

Parents were mixed from ultra wealthy to middle class and taking care. Nobody who mattered cared.

We thought carefully about Tiffin and decided that DS who was a natural linguist and more Liberal arts than science inclined would be a square peg there.

When we were paying fees for both it was £37k net income per annum.

Scrap the connections expectations. That’s the worst reason to choose a private school and so unlikely to be a factor in their friendships. Equally, I wouldn’t worry about the grounds, teen boys couldn’t give two hoots if their school is on an A road or a country road.

My year 10 tells me that her favourite thing is hanging out making tiktoks in the girls toilets. Their have their toilets wherever she went to school and I imagine the year 10 girls in any school are making tiktoks in the toilets.

I get the wanting to celebrate excellence but took at the state schools: if they’re a good school they’ll celebrate it, I can’t help thinking you might feel that private school is a different utopia but honestly, if you have good state schools you might find it’s not all that different when you get to the crux of it

@Yufnkc we won’t be saving that if we are paying fees. We will be having a nice life and paying school fees with a nest egg of 85ish k but not accruing much more money. Question is if that is comfortable/safe enough.

The utopia point is very true - I had a rough time at school (although all OK in the end) and don’t want the same for DC, am I feeling that paying will smooth the problems away?

I started hanging out with some Hampton boys during A levels and they just had totally different lives.

You'll be absolutely fine.

Keep saving away till dc1 starts and your buffer will be plenty big enough

The worst that happens is that the few years with 2 sets of fees to pay you maybe only get a £3k holiday. That's really fine.

We have DC in private on a WAY lower income than that. Your DC will not be the poorest.

IME secondary school experience is very dependent on the sort of friends your child makes and whether they are in a supportive friendship group. This is, unfortunately, largely a matter of luck.

I actually wouldn't do it - though I appreciate I know nothing about private schools. Your own salary is very average. So all of the rest of it - the holidays, the school fees for two kids - that's all from the lawyer income. Which sounds as if it can fluctuate? You could instead save up for pension, for university fees, for helping the kids with their housing deposits, with moving house yourselves should you want to...

I'm sorry but I'm going to break the consensus - I think you will encounter snobbery. That's no judgement of you, by the way. Just experience!

To be fair op dd got a place at one of the SW London "holy grail" state schools. It was an utter disaster due to appalling behaviour and a two tier system of expectations for the haves and have not. The teaching too was far from inspirational let alone excellent. We moved her.

London and surrounds are a different kettle of fish compared to other parts of the country.

There is no automatic entitlement for salaried partners to be made up to equity. You need to talk to some people who were salaried partners in2007. What’s his practice area?

We are aware of that @EuroTrashed but I think in 2 years time we’d have a sort of 90% idea about whether he was on that trajectory. He’s in corporate insolvency and restructuring. He’s also best friends (literally) with the managing partner and would
have a heads up either way and is already billing what would be expected as an equity partner. But yes, that’s a good point and definitely in our minds.

Thanks so much for all the comments, it’s all really useful.

@allycat4 that’s interesting, how so?

@EmbMonStu I just wanted to refer to the fact that you said you think private will smooth the way for a less tempestuous secondary journey for your DCs than you had and I would say that this is not necessarily the case.
I went to private secondary and a prestigious private boarding school for 6th form - I was from a very humble background and had the.worst. time. It was hell on Earth for me as I couldn’t relate to other kids there and struggled with the cliques terribly. I went to a top Uni as private education does afford you the grades, connections to do so but just found myself in the same boat as before.
My post grad was done at an old polytechnic, I found my people, thrived and got the best results of my entire academic career.

Think carefully about your reasoning for private schooling your kids, just because you had a difficult time in state doesn’t mean they will and private isn’t the utopia you think it is.

First off stop apologising. My husband was a lawyer and I know how hard he had to work to make partner. He got himself into Oxford, first in his family to go to university, and worked and worked and earned the money to send his kids to private school (eldest two started in an top rated state school but it didn't work for them, last two did not get in to the four nearest state schools due to distance - this is SW London). No way could we afford to go away every year.
So I have experience of five private schools. You will be less well off than some, better well off than others. I wouldn't worry about that aspect, it seems to affect the parents far more than the kids.
I do worry about your expectations that going to private school will allow your children 'ease, comfort and joy'. A private education will not provide that. If it's a decent school they will expect a high standard of work and discipline. The days are long (my kids day is 8.30-4.30 when in school, 8.45-3.30 online currently, with plenty of homework too). Sport every weekend. As for joy that is really fantasy. A child may be happy or not, that is not down to the school but who they are. Do not put the expectation on your children that you paying gir private education means your children must therefore have no problems. Because they certainly will, as much as any child.
A good education is a great gift for any child, and of the state option is not up to par then by all means pay for it - you seem to be grounded enough to have weighed it all up. But it doesn't absolve you from parenting your children- that is far more important in terms of their comfort and joy than what school they go to.

Think about your sons’ futures - for example it’s difficult nowadays to get onto the housing market. They could have a healthy savings account with the amount you saved each year for a good deposit when they needed it.
Dd is bright and went to the local comp and left a couple of years ago with 2 Astars and an A.
We are semi-rural and ‘up North’ and 99% just go to the one school on the doorstep.
London seems a nightmare as you have so much choice! Personally being 10 mins away is brilliant for after school clubs or seeing friends rather than stuck on transport to get there and back. I went to a private and a public school and taught in state schools and private. A good comp is the best solution if you are lucky enough to be near one. I would move to be near one for the lifestyle for both children and parents. Then it depends on their friends! For sports you can join local clubs. Which means another set of friends if friendship groups break down at school.