SW London boys, 11+ grammars and independents

[Jumpalicious]

Hello, I know there’s an excellent thread for the girls. Not sure if there’s one for the boys? Anyone want to come on board? I know we can’t divulge details of round two grammars since there will be late sitters, but was thinking more of a support thread. Any takers?

Absolutely, count me in! Otherwise, I just barge in into the girls' thread, as inability to share constant invasive thoughts about this all is almost debilitating!

As a summary, DS missed Tiffin Stage 1, passed Kent Test, and just done first stage of St Olave's and second stage of Sutton this weekend. He is also eligible for Wallington County based on Sutton SET (that was a huge relief after Tiffin fiasco).

On the indies front, he sat ISEB at KCS last Saturday. Our other ISEB schools are Hampton and Trinity. Plus we have KGS and Emanuel in January.

We cast the net wide, because a) we are able to move anywhere around London (renting) and DS has an EHCP (ASD), which, technically permits us naming any state school, providing he meets their admission criteria (which for grammars is passing their selective tests); b) he really wants "the best" school, which for him translates the most academic (at least for now)--he was perusing the new Times' Parents Power league tables this morning!; and c) we are still not sure what the right school is for him, and, sadly, we haven't been able to visit any and we are sort of out of the loop as neither me nor DP were raised and educated in the UK, and he is our first.

Thanks for organising!

Hi, count me in too. @GrammarHopeful. we are in very similar boat to you in terms of what we have applied for. Tho nothing in jan. Note your DS got through to so many next rounds. If you don’t mind me asking, what happened to your DS re tiffin stage 1? My DS did say it was hard, and didn’t complete the maths (round 1) despite maths being his strong card.

@Spacemen, no problem with asking.

I think it was a combination of things, really:

• it was a pretty hard test, no denying that, and given that DS is slower than normal (he' has high intelligence, but low normal processing speed) these type of tests really don't lend themselves well to letting him shine: we of course worked on time management and skipping and coming back to tough Qs, but it's just impossible to completely eradicate, especially, if he gets nervous and begins to panic. He didn't finish maths either;
• he worked himself in a state the night before—was visibly shaking with nerves at one point, and there is no playing it off as a game or some such with a precocious child with autism, I am afraid;
• it was his first one, and he tends to get better at most things with practice. In retrospect, doing a mock test would have really benefitted him, I think, but this was out of the question, as we had major issues around going anywhere during the summer as he was terrified of catching Covid (getting him to go back to school required a lot of planning, reasoning and a touch of bribing...).

@GrammarHopeful tough one isn’t it.

I’ve always thought exams are unfair. They suit some kids, but not all.

To nerves: As you say, you can’t even play it off with a child like yours. My DS was nervous, but excited (I think excitement that the exam was here and therefore soon be over 😆).

Note also, that I think (?) only about 450 kids or so go into second round ...out of how many (not sure, but a lot). I imagine at least 1000 of the kids sitting round 1 are all top-2 in their class material... huge competition. No telling which child will pass. Of course, your DS has extra elements to cope with. It really is tough...

Mock tests. I don’t think there were any, were there? Aside from the online tests eg Sutton (which we almost didn’t do, but glad we did, since gave good idea of expected standard I think). Again, I can see how no dry run won’t have helped. And yes, their first such exam. Did tiffin make some allowances for your child, eg extra time?

Anyway, here’s to Sutton. And the indies!

Hi, we are doing Trinity and Whitgift and also local state schools

Helloooo ladiees!

Just popped over with a hug and a wave from be girls thread. Great to see a boys thread established. I’m guessing there might be overlap with some co-eds

We did boys last year- happy to help!

Oh lovely, have been wanting a boys thread!

DS is applying to similar schools to yours @GrammarHopeful, though fewer of them! It's very sweet that your DS has been pouring over the league table - I did show DS where some of the schools that he was applying for were in the table but he quickly wanted to get back to his lego.

@Spacemen over 1500 boys sat for the stage one test last year which seems like an insane number. www.tiffinschool.co.uk/_docs/admissions/Patterns%20of%20Admissions%202020.pdf

DS had the ISEB yesterday and today has been absolutely lovely, knowing that there aren't that many to go now. Although it feels fairly risky having the indies ride on one test alone, I am also grateful that there aren't potentially additional tests to sit. Not sure how we would've got through having to do many more!

Thanks, @Spacemen.

In terms of odds, they aren't too good, agreed. For Sutton, about 3,000 boys sit SET and a third are taken to the second round for 465 places. For Olave's, that's ~1,300 boys with 400 into second round for 124 places. Tiffin is ~1600 for 180 places.

Re mocks, I thought there were some held by tutor groups, not the PTA. And you reminded me that DS had completely crashed in SGSPTA's Mock's Maths too; I somehow removed this traumatic experience from my memory

Re additional time, he qualifies for access arrangement under JCQ guidelines, so he had extra 25% for Tiffin and Sutton, 10% for Olave's and none (!$%^&*) for Kent. It's not a coincidence his Kent score is fine, but below Judd's normal threshold we targeted...

Good luck to your boy! I hope we find the Sutton results soon enough.

I'll join, DS sat the 2nd stage Sutton test yesterday, and has qualified for WCGS after stage 1. We live in LB of Sutton, and aren't targeting any indies or out of borough grammars.

DS has ASD & ADHD and had access arrangements granted in the tests too @GrammarHopeful. I was quite surprised, I really didn't expect he'd get them as he's in mainstream with no EHCP or (apparent) support in class etc. Wilson's is our closest grammar, and is first on our CAF, but otherwise I would have preferred Sutton to be top of his list - I've visited all 3 of them, and it was my preferred choice from a pastoral POV, and also how open the staff were when I spoke to them about the % of boys they have who are on the spectrum and how they manage that. I was very impressed tbh.

@RueDeWakening, thank you, that's incredibly helpful. I have spoken to WCGS's Senco already, but not to the othe two, as I didn't want to appear presumptions before Stage 2 results.

We have EHCP mainly because that was the only way to secure ABA provision for my DS without going bankrupt. He still has ABA shadow in his mainstream primary, but we've been winding it down from the beginning of this year in anticipation of secondary transition.

@allabitboring which schools did your DS apply for last year and do you have a way to speed up time so this bit is all over?

Is your DS happy with where he is now? I’ve read on the forum that the selection process is usually good at placing boys in the right school for them - did you find that to be the case for your DS?

Thank you @PitNicking - really useful info!

@allabitboring we are doing Whitgift too. Had email explaining they’d be in touch after they’ve processed all of the results (presumably after their Iseb deadline, which is 5 dec I think).

@GrammarHopeful just argh, isn’t it, especially when you know your son would benefit from being stretched... ps we have put down Hampton too (Iseb).

Apologies @allabit, the Whitgift reference was for @AveEldon!

He's at Latymer Upper- very happy. He managed to get a 10plus Hsmpton place so we didn't sit many schools last year- just Tiffin, Kings and LU and he was lucky enough to get all 3. Kings totally the wrong school for him (realised as we went through the process) so was a choice between the others really. DD sat Emanuel, Ibstock, KGS a couple of years ago so have experience of that.
However, the IESB makes it all a bit different this year- but I do think they end up at the right schools. Can all be a bit random though- boys we know got offers from Kings and not Emanuel, Tiffin but not KGS etc etc.
State primary for us with a bit of tutoring in exam technique.
Good luck!

Thanks, it’s so useful to get the perspective of a veteran!

Can I ask why you thought Kings wouldn’t be a good fit? It’s hard to get a sense of the schools without having been able to visit any of them!

Meant to say, that’s amazing he did so well! I’m glad he’s happy where he is - it’s the main thing we want at the end of it all.

Not sure really- just a gut feel! HIs friends who went there are a bit more 'conformist'! Who knows, he would have probably been fine, but LU definitely feels a better fit.
We were possibly a bit unlucky with the boys who showed us around Kings - something to be said for virtual visits where you all get the same experience!

May I join in as an onlooker? DS will be sitting the exams next year (currently in year 5). We are starting the process of preparing him for the exams. It’s hard to get a nine year old (or certainly this particular 9 year old) motivated by something that’s so far off in the future! I have an older DD but don’t know the boys’ schools so well, so will be reading with interest.

Hi all. DS also did the Sutton Grammar exams last year and is now extremely happy at Wilson's. We also know a lot about SGS, for various reasons.

I was on maternity leave this time last year and I'm a bit of a stats fan nerd so it was difficult not to let the whole thing infiltrate my brain at this point!

Happy to answer any questions - well done for getting through it and good luck to any continuing with the indie journey!

@Yellownotblue

May I join in as an onlooker? DS will be sitting the exams next year (currently in year 5). We are starting the process of preparing him for the exams. It’s hard to get a nine year old (or certainly this particular 9 year old) motivated by something that’s so far off in the future! I have an older DD but don’t know the boys’ schools so well, so will be reading with interest.

I'm also starting the process with DD, who is just as bright as DS but a child who 'pushes back' and insists on autonomy much more!

@TeddyDidIt

Hi all. DS also did the Sutton Grammar exams last year and is now extremely happy at Wilson's. We also know a lot about SGS, for various reasons.

I was on maternity leave this time last year and I'm a bit of a stats fan nerd so it was difficult not to let the whole thing infiltrate my brain at this point!

Happy to answer any questions - well done for getting through it and good luck to any continuing with the indie journey!

Hi Teddy, can I ask what to expect in a couple of weeks when Sutton will write to us about stage 2. If above the needed pass mark, do they simply say “you’ve met the requirements” (Wilson and or Sutton), but no guarantee of a place (a la round one). If below the pass mark, do they tell you your score? (Think that happened in round one too?)

Thanks for any help!

Also, how is Wilson’s going? Why did you decide against SGS?

@Spacemen yes, exactly. If above the pass mark, you get told your DS is eligible for a place but no guarantee of an offer. If they don't reach the pass mark, you'll be told what the pass mark was and your DS's score.
Some boys will pass one and not the other (SGS pass more boys so it's usually this way round, but it could happen the other way too because of how the schools weight the exams differently). I have known boys each year who pass SGS but not Wilson’s who still get an offer on offer day, so it's not necessarily bad news to not pass both.

We are nearer to SGS so I did seriously compare the two. We chose Wilson’s for a few reasons, but would obviously have been happy with SGS or Wallington. A couple of DS's main interests (music and chess) are major strengths of the school. We also know teachers at Wilson's well, so while both are great schools, we had more first-hand evidence and inside perspective of this for Wilson's. I really liked the old feel of SGS but DS preferred Wilson's more open feel with the sports fields on site, etc.

I'm not exaggerating when I say he has found his place. He comes home absolutely buzzing every day and has found many kindred spirits, not just in class but through the co-curricular activities. I suspect this is true at all of the schools in question but Wilson's is very serious about not tolerating unkindness among the boys, which DS finds really reassuring. After his first week there, he was asked how the school makes him feel in one word and he said 'safe'.
His best friend is at SGS and also very happy there.

Hi and thanks for staring this thread!
I’m at on DS2 - he has a 10 plus offer from Hampton and also passed 10 plus for trinity.
We kept the former but he’s sitting T again.
Got to stage 2 with Tiffin but not SET weirdly - so opposite to you @GrammarHopeful - everyone was expecting him to pas as Tiffin was apparently harder but he clearly messed up on the day. I have got over the trauma as he’s really had a good run and I guess a fall was due
We are going to give Graveney a bash and ISEB is next weekend - my only prob is he’s pretty much running on empty(ish) now so was actually good to get a break after stage 2 for Tiffin.

Hi, would love to join. DS is only sitting for independents as Grammar schools always felt like too much of a mountain especially with Tiffin being the closest. Out of interest how many from your primary school (approximately) get grammar places?