SW London boys, 11+ grammars and independents

[Jumpalicious]

Hello, I know there’s an excellent thread for the girls. Not sure if there’s one for the boys? Anyone want to come on board? I know we can’t divulge details of round two grammars since there will be late sitters, but was thinking more of a support thread. Any takers?

@Fingerscrossed1234 - a surprising number of boys got through to stage 2 of Tiffin this year - from our primary - I’ve not checked re Sutton.
The numbers going to grammars had really gone up in recent years but I honestly think it’s that the parents are more competitive than they were in this area when we first moved here.

@JustJuice187 The problem with tests being generally easier is that the gap between being well above the standardised score and falling short can be very small. So your DS didn't necessarily mess up - just that if the cohort found it easier on the whole, lots of DC get higher raw scores and they are still only going to take the top third (ish), if that makes sense? I'm not being very concise, I know!

@TeddyDidIt >> very insightful thanks.

My DS is in a prep school at the moment and we are trying to get him back into mainstream. He has now done Tiffin 2nd round as well as 2nd round WL/SGS and got a temporary place at Wallington and 60-able Greenshaw School... we aim for Tiffin as we are closest ( and DS only cares about Maths truthfully).

Also trying him for an academic scholarship at Hamptons ( but it will have to be substantial or else we wont go down the private sector again)...

Anyway, could not sleep last night :-( as we realised that we don't even understand the scoring for state schools. What is the top mark achievable for these exams? What are the pass rates for stage 1 to stage 2? I read previous posts about tiffin score of "106" getting a final place after round 2? is that the average of the 4 papers mark?

I know more about CATS and ISEB... lost for state scores. Please advise

Yes that makes sense. We found out his tiffin result a few days before that so I think he may have gone in a bit over confident. I do think the format of Tiffin probably just worked in his favour - less multiple choice.
He found stage 2 tough whereas some came out saying maths was easy so who knows. It’s nice to be able to put it on the CAF.
Anyway I have realised that this whole process has been incredibly hard for him and my main focus now is really on getting through the next week without any melt downs! I don’t think they really understand why they have to do all these exams at this age.

@sterou - the 106 is a standardised score - how much counts from 1st stage and how much from 2nd stage depends on school.
When you say you have a temporary place for Wallington do you mean you ‘have met the standard’? Alas with all these things it will still depend on scores and distance from school.
Ditto Greenshaw - we have that option to but again there are very few places which will go on distance and score.
It’s such a minefield!

@JustJuice187 When you say you found out his Tiffin score, do you mean the fact that he'd got through to the second round? Just curious as I don't think we found out what DS's score was (unless I missed it!)

@PitNicking - I don’t know his score - sorry where did I say that?
The 106 was an example based on @Sterou’s query - you are right we don’t know scores - which is part of the conundrum

Sorry I just checked: I said ‘Tiffin result’ not score

Sorry @JustJuice187 , it’s not just DS that needs to work on his comprehension skills clearly

Oh, goody! I'm happy to help too (gives me a welcome break from work which is full-on but tiresome)

Sat Tiffin, Hampton. Kings and KGS. KGS notoriously tricksy and, as a previous poster has said, can throw weird results. Know many boys not getting offers there, but got offers elsewhere BUT this year will be different as they will not be having the VR paper which (anecdotally) is usually the determinator. Kids before had needed to be very advanced with vocabulary etc., as well as fast!

Liked all the schools for different reasons, but chose Tiffin in the end and is enjoying it so far. Someone asked below, I think, but normally top 1-2 boys in primary class (who sit) to get offers in the 1st round (not sure about waiting list as wouldn't have necessarily heard of boys who had been offered on the WL as they would have accepted private by then).

Don't count on more than 10-20% at Hampton for scholarship unless bursary or exceptional (or coming from their feeder schools so are desperate to keep)

@Overthisyear thank you that’s really helpful! I think a lot of weight is placed on VR at T as well.
Interesting to hear re Tiffin offers - realistically I’m thinking ours will be a WL offer - the other two boys who are super bright in his class both seem to prefer Wilsons.
Hampton - good to know re scholarships - we are mainly applying for sports - but he’s scoring pretty highly in ISEB practice so who knows!

JustJuice187. You never know, sounds as if you both know what you're doing! Hampton you need to be very strong on maths. And don't worry, I don't know of anyone who didn't get a place at any of the schools they applied to. It's very competitive but most apply for up to 5-6 schools, so there are enough to go round.

As regards to ISEB, no idea what my DS produced on the day but he has very strong CATs tests 2 years running so hope this helps. I take it that ISEB scores won’t be shared either ?!

Are state schools also conducting CATs? This is so confusing

Hi SWLondoners!

@Sterou: no CATs being conducted at our state school. Be so useful to know his ISEB score, hah.

@Overthisyear thanks for the useful feedback. I’m sure it is typically the top 1-2 that pass tiffin round 1 (give or take a couple depending on the cohort). But I’m wondering what it takes to pass round 2...

I guess we won’t know until March. They don’t reveal anything sooner, or do they?

Thanks @Overthisyear - DS 2 has a 10plus offer from Hampton - we are sitting ISEB in order to apply for scholarship there.
Interestingly I found a massive jump on his ISEB scores after Tiffin round 2 - certainly with Maths

@Sterou - State schools don’t do CAT - I know about them as both my boys used to be at prep schools/ ISEB scores apparently don’t match CAT scores - apparently there’s a 10point difference 🤷🏽‍♀️

I meant the top 1-2 who pass round 2 and get offered. They said that the boys this year came from 100 different schools

@JustJuice187 I assume you mean Atom scores on ISEB pre-test sub-tests?

My DS regularly scored max marks / 9s on Atom maths after the initial learning phase, but he said some of the problems he got on the actual test towards the end were on par with Merchant Taylor's and Bancroft's maths papers, which are pretty tough.

I don't know his CAT scores (he is in a mainstream school), but he had his IQ tested in the past as part of his assessments, and he is 94-96th percentile.

@GrammarHopeful- yes that’s right - I mean Atom - sorry talking in short hand!
We haven’t really used atom for maths up to now. I have only subscribed to the ISEB bit of it. We did one mock about a month ago and one again the week after Tiffin stage 2 and saw a big jump in scores - just goes to show that the prep is really worth it. My experience from DS2 is that it also stands them in good stead for yr7 wherever that may be.
Atom and ISEB does get harder the more you get right - so your DS’ experience sounds right

DS 2 did have high CAT scores last time he did them in yr 4 and his old head really used to put a lot of weight on them but personally I don’t think they are that useful - just a gauge really.

@JustJuice187 >> CATS results are sent to Independent Secondary Schools to be reviewed alongside the ISEB results, for 11+ and 13+, and yes they certainly make a big deal out of them. My DS loves knowing his scores and how he fairs against others, so that was a good mean to find out ( national grid). Not knowing his ISEB results nor how the Tiffin/Sutton score their papers is driving him nuts !! I am sure Christmas will take the edge off :-)

Hi all,
could someone point me in the direction of online mocks for CAT ?
DC has to sit an online cat exam soon and would like to practice or get at least familiarisation.
we have been told it has numerical, VR and NVR questions. no specific mention of spatial or quant but it might just be wording
thank you.

@montlieu is this for a banding test.
I think the idea is not to practice for a CAT test - I know a lot of state schools do them fro banding. If you look at the GL assessment website there is more info on it. If you do want to practice of some sort Atom might be a good place.

@Sterou I don’t think we’ve ever told either DS their CAT scores - I’ve always just told them to try their best. I just found that especially at prep schools but all kids especially in London really are a bit to obsessed with schools and league tables and I’m just not keen on that at all.

All the kids.." really means "all the mums"!

If a child is stressed, nervous, obsessed etc it comes from the the parent, At least initially