A-level choices: engineering-----architecture

[istherelifeafter40]

DS has to choose 4 A-levels in November. He is not decided on what he wants to do as a career, but is leaning towards engineering - or architecture (quite a spread!) There seem to be myriads of different kinds of engineering - from mechanical, aerospace, electronic, civil, to biochemical. I don't know much about any of them. (Humanities person here).
I think he might also change his mind and decide to do natural sciences, for instance... I love the idea of natsoc at Cambridge - start wide and narrow down. I am generally against early specialisation...

Currently, he has 8 in maths and all sciences, but also in eng and photography that he loves. He also likes chemistry very much and says that physics is very easy. BUT he dislikes maths, although he does well in it and is in set 2 our of 6 in a selective school.

Our current choice is Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Photography (which would open architecture if he goes this way, but is a course-based work-intensive subject). He accepts that he "has to do maths" (not my doing)

or Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology (he dislikes biology, but I think it might be quite a different subject at A-level?).

The school also insists on EPQ, and he will be able to drop 1 A level but can continue with 4.

He is set very much against further maths, which as I understand rules out some of the best mechanical engineering courses or general engineering at cambridge, but can still be ok for the other unis. Imperial has dozens of kinds of engineering and they all require different A levels (and different grades, from A, A, A to AAA). How do you decide at 15?

Any advice? I am worried that doing 3 sciences and an artistic course-based work will be too heavy (+epq)! I wonder if it is too much science work and pressure in case he decides to do architecture (many courses don't specify A levels whatsoever).
He doesn't want to do any humanities' subjects though, or something like economics or politics...

Any advice or just a chat would be great

Maths chemistry and physics will be the A levels that keep his options open for STEM courses.

I don't think biology would add anything useful, especially as he doesn't like it and is already doing maths because he knows he needs it rather than because he wants to (and he's right to swerve FM if he's not that keen on maths)

Four A levels plus EPQ is a lot. But presumably he would be able to,choose something that develops his interest in buildings.

If he really wants to do photography, then perhaps the answer is for him to,go for it. Doing a subject he really wants to do might be an antidote to feeling others are what he needs rather than wants.

The first list of subjects i.e. Maths, Physics, Chemistry and photography sound as if they will work well for both engineering and (probably) architecture.

Biology isn't that useful for engineering and putting down a subject you don't like much as an A level option isn't a great idea.

Other universities offer general engineering degrees.

If he's good at sciences the workload is a lot more contained than arts subjects. Good overlap between maths and physics too - which helps.

Is he good at deeming something done or is he a perfectionist? Coursework/essay subjects are more likely to get excessive workload for a perfectionist - if he can keep himself with to a limit rather than letting photography expand to consume all available time it shouldn't be too bad.

Biology isn't necessarily compulsory for vet or medicine, so is the "easiest" science to pick up at degree level...

Thanks so much for all responses, this is so useful. He is not a perfectionist, but course-based subjects just tend to either draw him in entirely or be postponed until he is so behind he needs to only focus on them...

@catndogslife What other universities offer general engineering? If you know something about engineering, could you advise please how to choose which kind of engineering to do?

So, not doing biology will not prevent him from doing natural sciences if he decides so?
I wasn't educated here so I know nothing about this system.

If he doesn’t like biology I wouldn’t do it - the first list including photography sounds best . If photography is a real love then at that age it’s a shame to cut off something you love .

You can do anything for architecture at 99% of unis. Dd did biology, geography and product design and got 5 architecture offers. Make sure he's aware of the insane amount of hours architecture students put in. The drop out rate seems quite high.

Yes, that's why I think if he doesn't like maths, he shouldn't do it at A level, because he doesn't really need it for architecture. But then, if it is engineering, or engineering design, he needs maths.... ARRRGH!

and what is engineering design anyway? I guess engineering design at Bartlett is very different to engineering design at this obnoxiously called Dyson school at Imperial. You see I've been googling a lot!

My DS is studying Civil and Structural Engineering BEng.

He studied maths, physics & chemistry at A level.

He wishes he had not taken chemistry but rather Further maths. As chemistry wasn't relevant to his degree.

He found there was a cross over of topics between maths & physics which helped a lot, and further maths would've meant even more of a cross over so would've complimented his choice better.

Will he be allowed to do physics without maths? A lot of schools dont allow physics without taking maths

....just to add Engineering students also put in a huge amount of hours (DS is in a house of students taking mixed degrees and his timetable and workload is easily double what the others have on their plates) drop out rate is pretty high.

Engineering is also heavily maths centred - if your DS doesn't truly love maths he may not enjoy the course at all.

I would double check the requirements for Architecture - I don't think they necessarily need you to have studied an Art & Design subject at GCSE/A-Level but to be able to submit a portfolio of creative work. - Might be wrong there though, as this was a conversation I had with one of DS's friends who has wanted to be an architect since he was about 5 (so he's done a lot of research).

askmeonce Thank you! What is Civil and Structural Engineering?

I know mechanical engineering is very maths based, but I feel so lost in all of these different kinds of engineering - are they all very maths-based? biochemical engineering, for instance, would every different from aerospace, right?

I was going to say as above. Engineering is a lot of maths. Does architecture need maths?
I did a subject I didn't like and it was very painful.

Yes, a portfolio seems to be a requirement for architecture. DS doesn't want to do Art, neither DT at A level, but Photography counts as an Art&Design A level and he can do something to do with architecture with EPQ, for instance?

For engineering he needs maths, physics and usually one more science (obviously chemistry for chemical engineering etc) for architecture maths and physics are also ideal. Very few do 4 a levels now unless the 4th is further maths, (dd was only one of 2 at her college.

The school makes them choose 4 A-levels. At least if he chooses maths, physics, chemistry and photography we can calm down for now. But then if he needs to drop one next year, it's like basically delaying the decision : drop chemistry and chemical engineering is out; drop photography and architecture is out. He will still be 16 next year at the point of decision-making, it is so early to know what you want to do!

Oh and dd is doing engineering and really wishes she had further maths, most (75%) on her course do

Others have given good answers re the subjects. But I will say, if he's only getting 8s and isn't in the top set in Maths then Cambridge, and certainly Imperial, may well be out of his reach.

I think the big uni's will want very good maths skills for engineering. Not doing further maths might put him at a disadvantage.

DS did Maths, F maths, physics, chemistry and a Mini MBA (EPQ type thing) and said the work load was ok compared to his friends doing essay based subjects.

I personally think if you're going to do 4 A levels, then one should be F Maths, as it gets lumped in with maths and apparently (according again to DS) only feels like half an A level worth of extra work. Photog I imagine would be very time consuming???

re Architecture.
Double check that Photography is OK not Art.
Otherwise I'd expect Maths & Physics would be needed. Physics would be hard without Maths, and engineers need generally to be competent at maths.

Architecture at university varies (according to a friend whose DD is currently studying it). Some courses are very Art based, some very Physics based, some a mix of the two.

Just because he has to choose now, doesn't mean he can't change his mind (provided the timetabling works.)

I'm a civil engineer and did Maths, Physics and Art at A level.

The different engeneering disciplines are very different even though they are all called engineering; a mechanical engineer wouldn't be able to walk into a chemical engineering job, and a structural engineer would probably struggle with fluid mechanics engineering.

However, I would say that any engineering degree opens up a lot of opportunities.

You do need maths, but we did the same 1st year maths as students on the maths degree course.

DH is an architect he did Art, Physics, Economics and Maths. I think most of them did art (and you certainly need to be able to draw or sketch as they call it). DS and BIL did maths, f.maths, chemistry and physics BIL did engineering DS wants to do chemical engineering.

Maths is one of the few A-levels I'd do without loving it, assuming you're good at it. I never loved maths, didn't do Further Maths as a result. Got an easy A though (no A* in those days). The workload isn't too horrible, if you really don't get something there's only so much you can do (time wise) and once you have the answer you're done. It's about the easiest A-Level to do as a "necessary evil" as a means to an end. Always assuming you are good enough at the subject, so getting 8s.