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Secondary education

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Original poster

Comparing results state ( local) vs grammar ( by coach)

77 replies

schooling123 · 26/08/2019 10:20

I am comparing 2 schools, we also look at ethos etc, but I just wanted to share the results comparison:

School A - (walking distance 15 min) had 283 pupils
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), 85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)
Attainment 8 score 57
Progress 8 score 0.93

School B Grammar (116 pupils) - by coach, grammar, possibility to move closer to the area.
91% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),90% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),
Additional info: third of year 11 students gained a 7 or higher, and nearly 80% of year 11 students achieved a 5 (strong pass).

Attainment 8 score 69.8 - almost 70
Progress 8 score 0.33

Please could you let me know your thoughts how would you analyse pros and cons of these 2 options. Thank you so much

OP posts:
soccerbabe · 26/08/2019 10:25

on the basis of the limited info above, unless you feel your child would benefit from a fresh start/smaller school, I'ld be very happy with school A's results. school B's results don't seem that fantastic for a selective school tbh

Zinnia · 26/08/2019 11:03

Have you broken those scores (particularly the P8) down by prior attainment/ your DC's gender/ disadvantaged pupils etc? Headline scores from a single year are more of a snapshot than anything else. Though of course the grammar will likely only have middle/high prior attainers.

As others have said in your previous thread, your local school sounds very good, that P8 is impressive by anyone's standards.

RedskyLastNight · 26/08/2019 11:13

Didn't you have another thread on this? I'm not sure what more you want people to say that they didn't on that one. If you're hoping for someone to validate (or not) a belief you have, why not post what that is?

As per previous thread

  • both schools get good results (though now I know B is a grammar, I think their results are actually lower than I might expect)
  • school within walking distance is a huge pro
  • you need to look at the break down of results by high/medium/low achievers
  • you should visit the schools and not just look at highlight results.
  • school B is pretty small which many felt was a disadvantage

Have you looked to see what both schools have said about this year's results? I always think it's interesting to look at what they don't say. Plus those results will be reported in provisional form before you have to get your secondary application in.

Oh - and a grammar school is a state school as well!

JoJoSM2 · 26/08/2019 13:27

Well, looking at the numbers, the grammar gets more able children and they make very good progress. The children st your local comp make amazing progress. It looks like one of those schools where the top set or two will be kids gaining mostly 7-9.

stucknoue · 26/08/2019 13:31

You cannot use statistics to compare schools or judge if it's right for your child. Each child is an individual. The stress of exam entry needs to be factored too, the 11+ was almost eliminated for a reason

ChicCroissant · 26/08/2019 13:37

If it is a selective grammar, then the results are not much better than the state school. If it is a super-selective grammar, I'm surprised the results are not higher.

What is is about the results that you find hard to weigh up yourself, OP?

fedup21 · 26/08/2019 13:43

You do know that grammar schools are state schools too, don’t you?

I would want to know how long the coach journey was-if it was too long, I wouldn’t consider it.

The comparison is irrelevant to you as well if your child isn’t likely to pass the 11+, as they can obviously only choose to go there if they pass. What year are they currently in?

Original poster
schooling123 · 26/08/2019 15:48

I spoke to the coach company and they said it is about 55 min/ 1 hour to school form the pick up point. to get to the pick up point from our house is 10 - 15 min on foot, so in total 1 hour 10 min one way.

I am aware that other factors are important, I am just naturally drawn to a school that has a higher performance. My DS is already preparing for 11+, so we could set an exam. The reason I posted here is that some parents might give me a more balanced view when choosing between these 2 schools. I really like that the grammar school is selective/ has higher results. My DS has been preparing for 11+ for some time and I feel now perhaps if he goes to non-selective school, he might feel upset that he put so much work and goes to non-selective school.

I was previously comparing state A ( local) and state B school ( 40 min on public transport), now I am comparing state ( local) and grammar ( 1h.10min away, but much better results), as grammar results seem to be much higher.

OP posts:
RedskyLastNight · 26/08/2019 15:56

I am just naturally drawn to a school that has a higher performance

... because it selects DC that are more able! Getting better results with a more able cohort is not really that impressive.

Presumably you went through this thought process a while ago, or your DC wouldn't be prepping for the 11+ - what has changed to cause you suddenly to revisit it?

IMO 1hr 10 minutes (presumably on a good day) is too long a journey for every day. Is that a school bus? so your DC would never be able to do extra curricular activities? If you are set on the grammar (will you even get a place from so far off?) I'd certainly make the possibility of moving closer into a reality.

Original poster
schooling123 · 26/08/2019 16:02

Yes, I am thinking about moving, but it would mean commute to work for me and my husband.

Currently, i work 15 - 20 min drive from where we live and my husbands has just a waling distance to his work from where we live.

School A is in the area where we live and work ( within 15-20 min distance), so major changes would be needed if we decided to move for the school...

OP posts:
Ligresa · 26/08/2019 16:05

Well, the grammar school results are far better. It rather depends if he gets in or not.

Mustbetimeforachange · 26/08/2019 16:56

A grammar school will often have better results. Why? Because they select children who are good at exams. Simples! Go for your local school, it sounds great. Any prep for the exam will stand him in good stead anyway.

BelindasGleeTeam · 26/08/2019 16:58

Kids in school A make more progress than in the Grammar. That P8 score is blooming great.

That tells you the Grammar is probably coasting. It's doing fine....but it's not doing as much for it's pupils as the other one.

NoLeopard · 26/08/2019 17:11

Seriously, a grammar school with those low scores is letting the students down. The grammar schools in a neighbouring county to me get 99/100% and so they should.

MollyButton · 26/08/2019 17:11

You may be attracted by the Grammar, but its results aren't really better when you compare in take.
That journey is a bit of a killer - I had a cut off of an hour when I was looking at Secondaries. And an hours less travel gives more time for extracurricular activities and even study.
I knew one girl start year 7 with a similar journey after a term her parents transferred her to the local Comprehensive and it wasn't even as high performing as the one near you - because the journey was just too tiring.
With a commute like that you also need to consider school matches, after school events, clubs, and parents evening; nevermind emergencies.

To most here it is an obvious choice - and I'm sorry its not the one you want.

Frankley · 26/08/2019 17:12

You could move nearer the state grammar and then find he doesn't pass the 11+ exam.

Many able children do not pass.

JoJoSM2 · 26/08/2019 17:18

The results aren’t much better for the grammar. The same able child will statistically achieve better GCSEs at the comp.
And tbh, if you don’t want to move and have ridiculous commutes, why would you want your son to have one? With a commute to the grammar that long, I’d go with your very successful state school.

GivenchyDahhling · 26/08/2019 17:32

A grammar school which has 10% of pupils failing to get a good pass in maths and English (12 pupils in the school year) is pretty appalling. The grammar schools where I live have 90%+ getting 9-7s, not 9-4s. Given the base from which pupils who pass the 11+ are starting from it sounds to me like the school is failing them.

The Progress 8 score is also telling; pupils with the same level of prior achievement at KS2 nationally are only getting an average of a third of a grade higher in their GCSEs at the grammar than at the average school. Again, that reeks of a grammar school not doing what it should be - there should be serious uplift by virtue of the selective environment.

fedup21 · 26/08/2019 17:40

Which LEA are you in, OP-those grammar results seem odd?

Ithinkmycatisevil · 26/08/2019 17:47

I’d go for the school she can walk to. The still get good results and fantastic progress. There are more kids, so more friendship opportunities and no 11+ stress. No brainier for me.

IMO the results aren’t much better at the grammar and therefor not worth the extra stress/ added pressure of having to pass the 11+.

Mustbetimeforachange · 26/08/2019 17:52

Certainly not worth the travel

LIZS · 26/08/2019 17:56

How many out of area places are there each year? Is selective important to you. Tbh an hour each way is a lot at 11 and there would be less opportunity for after school activities and meeting friends. What about parents evenings, concerts, matches etc? Either move nearer now (and risk not getting a place, so what is the back up?) or look closer to home. Is private an option?

TheoneandObi · 26/08/2019 17:57

As many others have said, you can’t compare two schools where one has a selective intake. A factor I can throw in (having two DC who went through the local comp) is that although their results were stellar (so wld have been wherever they went) the school was ill equipped to advise on the next stage. No prep for Oxbridge or musical school type entrance for example, and rather lazily pushing kids through UCAS in the basis of what they were giid at at A level eg - expect A*s in Maths Firether Maths and Physics? Do Maths! When perhaps Mech Eng might have been better. That sort of thing. Grammars are much more geared up (I understand) to prepare for the next stage

BeyondMyWits · 26/08/2019 18:13

We had a similar choice and allowed out kids to choose.

DD18 - went to a super-selective grammar, has had an excellent education but has buckled a little under the pressure of expectations - has had problems with her friendship group being generally "richer" than she is - and being widespread geographically - some kids go to school on the train from 40 miles away, makes maintaining friendships harder - her mental health has suffered as a result. Now taking a year out for her own mental health benefit.

DD17 - goes to local comp - has had a reasonable education - not as focussed on excellence as her sister, less pressure, better friendship opportunities have led to better overall mental health. Has maybe dropped 2 grades between 4 subjects - so looking at A star AAB rather than her sister's 2 A stars, AA.

Each school provides different opportunities and different results - you need to look at the "happiness" quotient alongside results. My comp educated DD is happier, my grammar educated DD has better results academically. Both will probably go on to achieve whatever they want to.

Nodressrehearsal · 26/08/2019 19:47

Until your DS has an offer of the Grammar place I wouldn’t worry about it. This is all too hypothetical as places will be hard to secure.