Comparing results state ( local) vs grammar ( by coach)

[schooling123]

I am comparing 2 schools, we also look at ethos etc, but I just wanted to share the results comparison:

School A - (walking distance 15 min) had 283 pupils
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), 85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)
Attainment 8 score 57
Progress 8 score 0.93

School B Grammar (116 pupils) - by coach, grammar, possibility to move closer to the area.
91% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),90% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),
Additional info: third of year 11 students gained a 7 or higher, and nearly 80% of year 11 students achieved a 5 (strong pass).

Attainment 8 score 69.8 - almost 70
Progress 8 score 0.33

Please could you let me know your thoughts how would you analyse pros and cons of these 2 options. Thank you so much

[MollyButton]

My DC's comp was very geared up for Oxbridge and Medical schools- and would share some "enrichment" events with the local private schools.
Some Grammars don't know much about more vocational routes.

[JaneR0chester]

I would choose the state comprehensive (grammar schools are state run too as many have pointed out...) due to the distance. Imagine your kid joins a sports club or the school orchestra, will they be able to stay behind for after school activities if they have to follow a coach timetable? Or they manage to do extra curricular activities, get on the coach home and they're still not rested or ready to face homework when it's already 7pm.

Why subject your child to a daily 2+ hour commute from the age of 11? And if you plan on moving, assuming he gets a place, then those plans put extra pressure on him to pass the 11+!

Which grammar school is this? Because having 10% of the cohort fail to secure a good pass, when those kids have been selected into the school seems to indicate failure a lack of progress.

The local school has good headline stats, any work he does now for 11+ preparation will not be wasted, it will stand him in good preparation for secondary school level work! It is up to you to manage and help his feelings around sitting the 11+. If he doesn't get a place, he may feel upset, he may feel relieved... you need to guide him so he won't feel as though he failed, when the reality is that many children who sit the 11+ do not get into their chosen grammar school (well, around here in our super-selective grammar area this is definitely the case). The kids haven't failed, the school and the selection process is not right for them.

[TeenTimesTwo]

That is a massive commute for a 11 year old, or even a 14.
10 hours a week unnecessarily stuck on a bus.

Go for the local school but keep an open mind for A levels.

[Darbs76]

I also aren’t impressed with the grammar results given its selective so already starting off with pupils at a certain level.

This is my local grammars results for last year for comparison. My son didn’t get into that school, the pass mark is incredibly high as children are tutored for a few years to pass. A friend’s son goes and doesn’t like it and has tried to get her DS into my son’s school but no places. I’m glad my DS didn’t get in. It would have been 2 buses and longer to travel. The facilities are no where near as good as his school, the GCSE options were limited. I feel he would have struggled being one of many bright children. Instead he’s won many awards and doesn’t feel too threatened by competition (he’s very competitive). He’s predicted 8’s and 9’s in his GCSE’s (he got an 8 last week as they did one a year early; 1 Mark off a 9 so being reviewed) so I’m not sure how much better he could have done.

I think 1hr 15 is way too long to travel. Think to year 10/11, my DS has an awful lot of homework daily. The school you are comparing to looks excellent.

[JoJoSM2]

Wilson's or other London grammars are a different ball game. The OP's grammar is clearly a lot less selective. It does have a high progress score so does do well by its pupils ( not as well as the comp in question, though).

Darbs76, out of interest, where does your son go.

[Mustbetimeforachange]

I'd guess at one of the Buckinghamshire or Slough grammars, although I'm not sure you would get in to most (?all) of those from an hour away. Maybe Kent?

[BubblesBuddy]

Wilson’s is in the LB of Sutton. A child from anywhere in that area wouldn’t get into a Bucks grammar.

[BubblesBuddy]

The Grammars results are not great. All Bucks Grammars had 93% or above getting grade 5 maths and English. The best performing grammar had a p8 of 1.21 which is amazing for a grammar!

[avocadochocolate]

Hi OP...... I had a similar dilemma to you several years ago with DD1. However, in the end the decision was made for me by DD1 failing the 11+. This failure was an absolute travesty because she got all 8s and 9s at GCSE.

However, the 11+ failure turned out to be a black cloud with a silver lining. DD made local friends, did many after school clubs from Y7 onwards and in y11 stayed late almost every evening for revision classes. All these extras contributed significantly to her happiness and success at school. Most of this would not have been possible if she had been travelling at hour on the coach to the grammar.

[ittakes2]

Both my children got into different grammar schools - I have just pulled one of them out because her grammar school was an absolute exam factory and it did not suit her personality. Which school does your child prefer? Which one do you think suits their personality? There is a lot to be said from being able to walk to school and make local friends. My son's grammar school is local - he has spent the holidays going out swimming etc etc with his friends - they often decide on the day what to do and walk to each other's houses. My daughter's was a bus ride away and every time she has seen her friends its been planned and organised and infrequent as no-one lives that close.

[Frogsandsheep]

Is this Lincolnshire by any chance?

[SalrycLuxx]

I’d choose school A probably. But first I’d want to know the percentages for the 9-7 band. Is it great at getting most kids to ‘pass’ or does it also stretch the high achievers to get the top grades?

[BertrandRussell]

Those results aren’t very good for a grammar school at all.

[SolitudeAtAltitude]

The progress8 score of the first school is really impressive, and I would visit both schools with DC and see what you think of senior management, and where DC like the "feel" of the place

[BertrandRussell]

The grammar would have to have some fantastic “extras” in terms of drama or music or sport or something to make it worth that sort of commute. And you would have to be sure that he could take part in the extras- are there late buses home? My kids were sometimes at school til 8 or so for rehearsals- even later for performances.

[MsAwesomeDragon]

I didn't even consider a grammar school at a similar distance for my DD. Logistically it's a nightmare if kids want to do after school activities because there isn't the school bus to bring them home, friends are too far away to hang out with in the evenings, etc.

My DD got all A*/A (she did her GCSEs 3 years ago, so all letters), so obviously did very well at the local comp, and had more freedom to join clubs (she did choir, orchestra, wind band, so stayed after school 3 nights a week) and had friends within walking distance.

I really don't think that grammar school is doing very well, considering its a selective school. I would expect any selective school to have pretty much 100% 9-4 English and maths, maybe one or two pupils missing the 4 through exceptional circumstances.

[schooling123]

Thank you so much for all your replies, they are all very helpful. The grammar I was talking about is in Slough.

My DS had been doing preparations for 11+ for about 2 years (as I initially thought about private), but now I would much prefer grammar. Now I understand that the travelling time is not worth such a step. I like the idea of my DS having local friends who would go to local comp, as he is sociable and is frequently asking to organise playdates.

I still have the feeling that there is a better behaviour in some grammar, private schools in comparison to comprehensive. It is so difficult, as I feel the local comp is ok, but just after visiting some private schools, my DS1 liked the feel of them.

Perhaps, I will explore Bucks grammar, as we are considering moving anyway from where we live. Plus, I have a younger DS2. I know I am too late for 2020 entry, so it would be a longer project for later transfer 12+ .

I am thinking about this plan:

1. to try for independent schools entry 2020 for partial bursary (since DS has already been preparing for 11+) – my DS1 liked the feel of some schools

1. register for local comp

1. to go to open days in Bucks and explore the late transfer into grammar (Bucks) 12+ ? This would involve the house move. I also need to consider DS2 – he will be in Year 3, so a few years before choosing his school)

1. Alternatively, stay at local comp till 6th Form and then looking at changing schools at 16+

[schooling123]

I have checked that from Bucks area ( for example from Dr. Challoner School) to my work is about 35 min and for my husband 30 min drive. I need to have an open mind that I have 2 sons, so any moves would be for 2 sons...

[Namechangeforthiscancershit]

Those results aren't great for a grammar at all.

Surely it all comes down to where your son will be happiest. What environment do you think would suit him best?

[schooling123]

Environment - both academic and sporty. I now understand that if grammar - it needs to be much better results and more extras, music etc
So I now think about going to open days in Bucks?

[AlpenCrazy]

Those % 5-9 for a grammar look pretty poor tbh.

[BertrandRussell]

“ would expect any selective school to have pretty much 100% 9-4 English and maths, ”
Yep- me too.

[BertrandRussell]

I can’t understand why you would want to move from the comprehensive you’ve got on your doorstep...

[Ithinkmycatisevil]

That sound like a very complicated plan @schooling123

The comp on you door step has good results and is local and easy to get to, with no house move required.

It would be a no brainer for me and would only be looking at less convenient options if the local school was dire.

[schooling123]

I know local comp has good results, but grammar in Bucks have excellent results and suspect more extras - music etc?