Comparing results state ( local) vs grammar ( by coach)

[schooling123]

I am comparing 2 schools, we also look at ethos etc, but I just wanted to share the results comparison:

School A - (walking distance 15 min) had 283 pupils
2018 result
66% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018), 85% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018)
Attainment 8 score 57
Progress 8 score 0.93

School B Grammar (116 pupils) - by coach, grammar, possibility to move closer to the area.
91% 5-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),90% 4-9 GCSE English and Maths (2018),
Additional info: third of year 11 students gained a 7 or higher, and nearly 80% of year 11 students achieved a 5 (strong pass).

Attainment 8 score 69.8 - almost 70
Progress 8 score 0.33

Please could you let me know your thoughts how would you analyse pros and cons of these 2 options. Thank you so much

If you compare a grammar with a good comprehensive, the grammar will always look as if it has better results by definition.

Certainly the grammars round here most certainly do not have better arts and sports provisions, grammars round here are amongst the least funded state schools.

Are you in Maidenhead op?

In my experience, grammar schools, because they have a much higher % of privileged kids also have a much higher % of kids who have music lessons and sports coaching outside school. So there is a bigger population of sporty/musical kids to choose from. It’s not necessarily the facilities of the school. Although the school happily takes credit for it!

I know local comp has good results, but grammar in Bucks have excellent results
Thats because they select the top 30% (roughly) - look at how the top 30% do at the comp.

I know I am too late for 2020 entry, so it would be a longer project for later transfer 12+
That is very risky as you are relying on someone leaving at the end of year 7 & being at the top of the waiting list (having passed in the first place). What if you move & then don't get a place? One of the Buckinghamshire grammars (Burnham Grammar, or Chesham, not sure?) used to take in a class in year 8, but I'm not sure if they still do. You need to check the school websites & talk to the schools. We are just over the border in Herts & people are no longer getting places in Bucks schools.
Stay put, OP, you are in the enviable position of having a good comp nearby, most people would give their eye teeth for that.

OP, I don't know if the grammar does extra music. However, between a long commute and homework, there will be 0 time left for any music/sport or friends.

All Bucks Grammar entry is y7. Few have unallocated spaces, ever. Lots of DC try for late entry to y8 but the majority don’t get in because the schools are full. It’s an ultra risky move to make.

There is not 30% of Bucks DC in Grammars countywide. Aylesbury Vale has a much lower pass percentage. The AV Grammars top up with out of county DC in large numbers. You cannot look at the numbers in the Bucks Grammars and assume they are all Bucks resident DC. They are not.

The Slough Grammar is very small and as a result a few DC under achieving makes a big difference. Also the school has middle achievers so getting 100% with grade 4-9 in maths and English is about what you might expect. I suspect this school has vacancies from time to time as 120 would be the admission number I suspect.

Your plan to move DC into a Bucks grammar in y8 (even assuming that they passed the exam and there was a place available) as well as a prior house move will be hugely disruptive for them. DC tend to lose progress with a school move, let alone moving house as well.
If you were going to do this you needed to have started working towards it a year or more ago.

I'm sorry, but your idea is madness. Especially when you have an amazing school on your doorstep.

I’d think the grammar results were questionable. Nearly one in ten from a highly selective intake don’t pass maths and English. That’s not good.

Grammar schools in an area also mean the comprehensive isn’t comprehensive. The highest ability cohort has been sliced off to go to the grammar. The results for the other school are pretty good for a top sliced, non selective intake.
I can only talk personally but mine had very good music, drama and sport at their comprehensive.

CherryPavlova. The comp is local to where they live. The grammar is RC in Slough and is a journey away. They are not schools in the same area.

As I said above, these Grammars in Slough are not highly selective. They have middle achievers. These DC are the ones who are not doing so well. The school quoted by the OP is very small and a few DC who are over tutored seem to bring results down. The majority, of course, do very well. Their P8 varies from well above average to above average. That’s fairly decent and probably reflects that this isn’t the top choice grammar for many in this area. Hence it’s not getting the stellar results some think it should. But we are only talking of 11 DC who get 4s in maths and English.

You need to look at the stats by prior attainment. Is your child a high or middle achiever (what are they predicted to get in their SATS). How does your child deal with academic pressure (I removed ds from a high acienving selective school as he crumbled under the pressure).

Dd hd just over an hours commute to her school. It was incredible difficult and impacted on her socially and academically. My dh actually stayed in a caravan park near school with her during her GCSE exams as we couldn't risk her being late due to traffic. The ONLY reason she endured this for 5 years was becasue the school specialised in an area that she is talented in and hopes to make her career and all extra curricular activities were centred round that. (For 6th form she lodges with a nearby family).

Thank you. My DS is doing well in his primary school, so he says he wants to be challenged and he wants to try for a selective school. I am ruling out the Grammar B school, as I can see now that the results are not as good as good be with the selected cohort.

It is very interesting to learn that comprehensive in Bucks are not as "comprehensive" because the top has been sliced off to grammar. I have never thought about it...Does it mean that the comprehensive school in non-grammar area would have a more spread with abilities, including high achievers compare to Bucks comprehensive?

Does it mean that the comprehensive school in non-grammar area would have a more spread with abilities, including high achievers compare to Bucks comprehensive?

Yes. Unless, of course, there is significant provision of independent education and a high percentage of the local high attainers' parents can both afford to buy into it for their DC and choose to do so. But even then, the answer is still yes, since in Bicks the percentage selected out for grammar is relatively high - it is in essence a fully Grammar - Secondary Modern authority (even ignoring the Bucks DC who are squeezed out of the Grammar-eligible section of the cohort by well-OOC exam candidates who never intend to apply / would not get a place due to distance etc if they did).

“Does it mean that the comprehensive school in non-grammar area would have a more spread with abilities, including high achievers compare to Bucks comprehensive?”

Out of interest, where did you think clever children in non grammar areas went to school?

Chill, OP. My kids were the definition of bright and wanting to be stretched. Each have 4A*s at A level and each went (or are at) properly top unis. But they were also ‘normal’ kids. They went to a comp, albeit in a non selective area so there was no top slicing. They could however have gone private. But didn’t. They remained local and rooted in their community with local friends. Why not give your bright child a go at the comp? Of it doesn’t work out then I’m sure you can switch and pay. Let us know what you decide

To put another viewpoint re the journey, my ds travels around an hour coach journey to grammar. A school coach is very different from public transport or a horrible commute to work. It’s social time with a coach full of other kids from school. They chat to friends, do homework, play on phones, etc, so an hour doesn’t seem a long time. I wouldn't want ds to do that long a journey on public transport, but a private coach with just kids from the same school is very different.

My other dc went to a local comp (which worked well for her - completely different personality) and would get home & play on her phone for an hour or a friend would drop in after school to chat or watch YouTube - really just the same stuff ds was doing except not on a coach. And my ds is less outgoing and social, so I like that he has that social time on the coach as I think it’s helped cement friendships. But my point is that a coach journey isn’t necessarily a negative thing, ds and most of his friends seem to find it fun.

Regarding after school clubs, grammars often do a lot of lunchtime activities as catchment will likely be large, so they will be aware of long journey times, but you can ask about this at open day.

The fact that there is a coach also means there are likely to be lots of children from your area going to that school, so friends won’t all be miles away as is often the case when you travel for school.

The only downside IME is that you/dh do need to think about the logistics of picking dc up if sick, or what to do if he misses the coach, etc. Also there will probably be a bit more ferrying around in the holidays. Talk to other parents whose dcs travel on the coach and get a feel for what it is actually like.

Another point is that if you decide not to apply for grammar you can’t normally change your mind & move to a grammar later (not until Y12), but if your dc started at grammar and decided it was wrong for him, you may we’ll be able to move to the comp. I think a couple of children in my ds’s class did this, and at my dd’s comp there was much more movement of students in and out, despite it being oversubscribed.

But, having had dcs at both grammar & local comp, I’d just look at which school is the best fit for your child, and which one they like and feel comfortable at.

“To put another viewpoint re the journey, my ds travels around an hour coach journey to grammar. ”

Does he play in teams or orchestras or perform in plays?

It’s social time with a coach full of other kids from school.

As long as you actually get on with those other kids. not remotely comparable to spending an hour socialising how, with whom and in what way you choose to.

I know kids for whom the coach journey was literally a living hell.

Out of interest, where did you think clever children in non grammar areas went to school?

Prívate?

Bertrand, he does orchestra and debating, doesn't enjoy sport. It's all at lunchtimes, apart from occasional debating competitions and concerts.

My impression (not just from ds but other children who go on the coach), is that most have a group of friends they travel with. It's a double decker coach, so you'd be unlucky not to have a few friends - was the 'living hell' coach a smaller one? I've only known of one child who left specifically because of finding the journey difficult, but haven't heard of anyone who finds it 'literally a living hell' - maybe just lucky, I don't know.

Redsky, I think for ds it IS comparable to having choice over how he spends his social time. The people he sits with on the coach are about half of his friendship group, so they are people he chooses to spend time with both in and out of school, and if he's not in the mood for chat, then he'll play on his phone, do homework, sleep, etc, much like he'd be doing if not on the coach. He says he enjoys it, so do his friends.

But, like I said, I'm just putting another perspective as there were so many negative replies about the journey. It's not for everyone, but I don't think we should assume that because, say, an hour's bus commute to work can be stressful and unpleasant, that an hour chatting to friends on a coach that drops you at the school door, with no worries about changing bus/train, losing tickets, cancellations, coping with weird strangers, etc, is equally awful. It's not necessarily the time that is the issue, it's what the journey is like and who you travel with.

Considering the Grammar school likely creams off the best at exams I think school A is doing really well and would pick that if my child seemed happy there on open day