As the Tiffin results day looms, a second 2019 SW London grammars and indies thread

[FlumePlume]

A new thread to avoid the doomsday scenario of running out of posts as envelopes are opened on Friday, waiting lists move (or don’t) and e-mails are opened on 1 March.

There are plenty of recent threads about G&L. I shouldn't think many live in Hammersmith! No real difference in family wealth compared to other independent schools

I don't think you should worry about your personal financial circumstances unless they are of the kind that will make the school fees very difficult or impossible to keep up with. There will be a huge range of financial situations and it is likely, going on my own experience, that the children involved won't fully appreciate the differences until much later on, possibly even after they've left school. Though it is also possible that I was particularly dim, I think this matters less to the children than the parents.

The thing to concentrate on is whether or not you feel your daughter will be really really happy at the school.

Well Wealth levels are something I’ve been thinking about, too. I’ve come to the conclusion that if your dd has less than others, that’s fine. That’s just ‘different families do things differently’ territory which we’ve all done since they started nursery. But if she’s constantly told the reason you have less than others at school is because of paying for her school fees, that would be a problem.

They’ll be some on a bursary so should be a mix of wealth. I’ve told my dc that there will be some rich children with the latest phones/designer clothes and big houses. I’ve also not hidden the fact that we are making sacrifices as a family to send them to expensive schools and are prioritising that over a new kitchen or expensive holidays. I’ve also warned that we won’t be able to necessary afford the optional exotic trips offered by the schools!

I found the wealth-gap at independent secondary far less than at state primary (though in a wealthy area).
Sure based on some of the holidays (and frequency) some people must be minted, but it is few and far between.

DCs tend to meet out and about, no "playdates", only a handful have been to our home. In SW London anyway a huge house in Isleworth can be way less prestigious than a small place in Wimbledon - kids really don't see it unless swimming pools and huge grounds come into play which is pretty rare in this part of the world.

You barely meet other parents, you don't have that daily chat in the playground where you see their latest bag / gadget. You don't get the daily waiting for the kids chitter chatter over whether they should buy the skiing apartment in Morzine or Verbier!

I guess wealth differences will become apparent post-school. When some dcs will have no student debt / help with housing / living costs post uni etc.. But at school it is barely noticeable. And I don't see the difference between us and friends who have chosen our excellent state secondaries.

So, DD is now hell bent on Putney, just as I am more and more certain that KGS is the right choice for hr/us. Partly because her father has been being his usual bullish self about it - so she's rebelling. He's so f-ing tactless...

We'll go and visit KGS on Wednesday - I'll take her, and softly softly try and get her to see the advantages. Without her realising that's what I'm doing obvs. And thenI guess let her genuinely make her own decision.

On wealth discrepancies - I was a full scholarship girl with utterly skint parents at my GDST school. I got it - your DD isn't dumb, she knows the score, as I did and she'll get it too.

I relished the opportunity my school gave me, felt exceptionally fortunate to have it, and wouldn't have wanted not to have it on the basis of keeping up with the Joneses anxiety on behalf of my parents.

I know they felt bad about my not going on the more lavish trips - but I completely understood and it really didn't bother me. And I wasn't the only one, and she won't be either.

whycant How annoying of your ex! I hope the visit helps. The problem is these are bright girls, my dd pointed out that I had told her a lot about the disadvantages of SPGS compared to WHS (mostly the journey) and could I please now list the advantages. And not to turn it around by asking her to do so!

Clever girl and good question!

It's one of the reasons he's my ex - absolutely zero ability to read people, be sensitive or tactful, and a total insistence on his way of thinking about / doing anything.

He once got fired from his job as a CEO after a boardroom coup. He was so shocked, particularly with the fact that I wasn't in the least.

He's breaking his relationship with our eldest already who just says "there's no point in talking to daddy about anything - he's not interested in listening to anything I have to say...".

I fear the damage may be done re KGS now though and it's out of the running for DD - which I'm really sad about.

whycantwegoonasthree, hope your visit goes well on Wednesday. We will be there too with my DD, its always been our favourite. However my husband has not seen it, somehow he has been convinced so much so that the acceptance papers have been sent back.
I’m looking forward to the visit and looking around knowing she is excited to go there. I hope your daughter gets that feeling too.

Who is waiting to see what state option they get and what is your plan to get the forms/deposit in in time for the private if you don’t get the state you can want? I’m in two minds whether to send back the forms this week or wait until the weekend (I don’t think we’ll get our top two state choicesanyway). I wish it wasn’t so tight as feeling nervous about doing it last minute!

Top choice was TGS which my dd is adamant she is not going to!

We also put TGS as DD's first choice. Really unsure if we'd accept it if we get it or take the indie offer but leaning towards the indie more. We have the indie offer until the Monday at noon so hubby planning to drop the forms in on his way to work on Monday morning (the indie is only a 10-15 minute drive from home depending on traffic).

Offers from LU, G&L and LEH. What to do?
Truly wasn't expecting this as DD v up and down depending on the day.
Can anyone help from experience?

Where do you live Juggling?

Richmond so all doable.
The late bus at LEH makes it possible as DD loves sport and tube works for the others but with a longish walk home.

They are all good schools but you need to think about the details. Will your DD thrive in coed or single sex? For me this was easy as DD was desperate for girls only. Other children may be different. Will your DD thrive in a big school or a small school? LU bigger than many. Not sure about LEH or G&L but suspect LU bigger in intake. Does your DD have a preference (really think it helps with the long journeys etc if the child is already invested in the choice). For a sporty kid, is lacrosse really what you want as it's fairly niche (LEH)? Etc etc. There are lots of variables!

Hi Juggling - Agree with Glaciferous above. Also, I have experience of LU and just wrote about it in the other thread where someone was asking for comparisons between LU, G&L and NLCS.

LU has 180 in a yesr group where G&L has 100. Not sure about LEH as never applied. LU has a campus feel which is not particularly “containing” or nurturing, particularly in younger years. They make s big thing of the amazing drams facilities etc, and sure these are all there, but hardly anyone ever gets into a play. Having said this, the DC are not sheltered away, the school has its own GCSE accredited course called “World Perspectives” which is compulsory and introduces them to concepts in Economics, Politics, etc they wouldn’t normally encounter until A-level. It’s s fast-paced school with an urban feel. Most of the DC are comfortable with public speaking and very articulate - not really a place for a quieter, “bookish” type. The curriculum is fantastic, as is most of the teaching. It’s forward- thinking and feels cutting-edge in many ways, but it does take them time I grow into the school ime. Having said this, if you have a girl who is thrives on being in boys’ company, or who is more on the outgoing / gregarious side, it may well be the school for her.

We’re choosing G&L this year because we’re hoping for a more nurturing experience! DD preferred it too SPGS because she said it feels more down to earth and kinder. So, I don’t know, but looks like this is the way we’re headed!

Also, if this matters to you at all, in terms of GCSE results, LEH and LU are similar, st about 92% A-A. Since the new head has been at G&L (I think about 5 years now), results have gone up - I think last year they got 98% A-A which puts them ahead of St Paul’s Boys, Westminster and KCS! So it feels like a school on the up, academically. Having said this the academic differences are minuscule and you have to take it all in the context of the London bubble we’re in!

I have no experience if LEH. I guess the coach is safer, but also more restrictive. I would have worried about the social dynamics on the bus and being stuck with people (inc Hampton boys) for years on end, but maybe that’s just me. LU and G&L couldn’t be more urban in location, where LEH feels I more suburban. I did look at Hampton for one DS which is similar in feel I think.

Good luck and those are my perspectives fwiw.

@Jugglingmadly, I posted on the last thread re my DD’s experience at LEH. The facilities are superb and grounds extensive. Sport, music and drama all done to an exceptionally high standard and plentiful.
The school bus system is great and the late coach makes coming home in the dark less stressful for the DC (my DD says she can properly relax rather than worrying about who else is next to her/missing her stop etc...).
All three schools are excellent though and I don’t think differentiating them on GCSE exam results is particularly helpful. They are all highly selective and academic environments and will cater well for the brightest DCs. In fact fwiw, since DD joined LEH, I believe they have been consistently ranked “higher” than LU and G&L until this year when G&L have had an all time record. All this tells us is that G&L have a stonking cohort of girls who are now in the lower sixth.
Does your DD have any preference about which school she likes? Obvious difference is coed vs single sex (although at LEH there are opportunities to mix with the Hampton boys during extracurricular activities/on the bus etc).
Having the choice of 3 excellent schools is obviously a nice problem to have but most certainly a confusing one! Good luck with your decision.

Juggling Can you do and pros and cons list of each one with your dd? That helped us (though she had a preference by that point).

I think we’ve made our decision - but will probably hang on until we know about Tiffin, as if dd did get a place the reality of that might make us re-think. Though I doubt it.

Well done for making a decision Flume. I think we just about have too but it’s such a big decision and it would be nice to know the state option before making the final decision.

Juggling- you have 3 excellent schools to choose from. Most of the advice on this forum says go for the easiest journey. Good luck deciding.

I'd say go for the easiest journey, obviously co-ed versus single sex and most of all, the all-important gut feeling that you and your dd should have about which one you instinctively prefer. Remember some posts on here may have an agenda that's not immediately apparent. They are all fantastic schools

Thanks everyone, we do know it's a lucky position to be in!
Good to hear some have (almost) made their choice.
Commute does seem to be key - especially in the first couple of years.
We've done pros and cons list - they all have both! So will think more about gut feel too.
I think DD has a different view to me and to DH 🤔

Congratulations to everyone that got places and best of luck to everyone still waiting.
Does anyone know the stats for Sutton High School? How many girls applied and how many places were offered?

Although I did worry about the commute, I don't think it's the most important thing of all unless you are committing to some kind of crazy long journey. Up to an hour is absolutely doable even in the younger years. To me the most important thing was fit. That was so important to us that I did not sit DD for lots of schools that she would have very likely got into because I did not think she would be happier there than in the local state option (she got Tiffin, but if she hadn't I'd have preferred local state option over a number of independents).