Should teachers shout at kids?

[Mich0027]

Genuinely interested in everyone's opinion as to whether it's acceptable for teachers to shout, angrily, at secondary age children. Actually, specifically year 7 - but am interested in general opinions ...

If my child was misbehaving in class I wouldn't mind the teacher shouting at her. I suppose a lot depends on shouting on there face or just shouting at them?

In*

Ideally not, but they are human beings, so sometimes if the provocation is very great, it happens! I would only feel I needed to say something if the shouting was totally disproportionate/repeatedly aimed at the same child with no other strategies used/contained abusive language/was so constant that it was really affecting one of my children.

I'd much rather a teacher who is engaged, human and passionate, builds relationships with students and occasionally shouts than a time-serving robot who just "delivers the curriculum" and parrots out "straight to isolation!" every time a child clicks a pen or whispers to a friend. Which sadly seems to be a great many teachers in my children's school.

Whilst I don't want my child to be shouted at, neither would I want him mistreated by uncontrolled and misbehaving students.

SO it depends on the context. If other methods of behaviour management have been tried, then yes, it is acceptable for a teacher to raise his or her voice in anger at an eleven year old who is still misbehaving.

What’s your opinion, OP? My opinion is that context is everything.

Depends. I have shouted to break up a fight etc etc. Constantly bellowing is worrying and rarely effective but I would be more concerned about what exactly was said and what the students were doing that led to the shouting rather than simply the fact that a teacher raised their voice.

Occasionally yes if required.

Every day, no.

Depends why and depends whether there was actual shouting or just firm/raised voice with a message they didn't like.

I cant see a problem with it . It was quite normal when I was a child and I would rather they kept order by shouting so that the non disruptive children are able to learn. Teens are bloody hard work.

@RolyRocks instinctively I feel it's wrong. It's wrong for anyone to shout in anger at someone else but especially in an authoritative relationship with a child. However I understand we're all human and can lose our rag. I shout at my son sometimes. I usually apologise after and it's not my go to strategy for behaviour management but - I'm human.
The context is a teacher had really shouted at my son today. My son describes it as right in my ear spitting with madness. Yes my son was behaving defiantly but still... it's further damaged the relationship between teacher and student. Of course I feel immediately affronted by it but o want to be reasonable to the teacher too. Can't be an easy job.

Would you rather he spent 24 hours in an isolation booth? I wouldn't.

Not the teacher's finest moment I'm sure, but I'd have a chat with your son about why he's being openly defiant in school as well.

Shouting over the whole class to be heard is fine but unless my child was putting themselves or someone else in danger I wouldnt be happy for them on their own to be really shouted at in anger.

Speaking as a former teacher, it's fine to strategically raise your voice in certain circumstances but never ok to shout in anger - it's aggressive and disrespectful.

@Greensleeves he is also spending the full day in iso tomorrow for it.
I have been emailing this teacher and the pastoral support head to try and intervene before it escalated to this bit have not had a great response. They've now agreed to meet me thankfully

yes if my son was 12 years old and being so defiant as to cause a teacher to shout at him I'd back the school to the hilt.

Parents that don't are part of the problem with the discipline in the school system.

In my opinion of course.

Mich007 that doesn't sound great from the school then. I can see why you are worried that their approach is going to break down relationships further. I'd definitely be meeting with them in your position. Good luck with it

What did he actually do/say?

I don't think a teacher should be shouting frequently: it's ineffective (children learn to ignore it) and creates an unpleasant atmosphere which can make quiet, well behaved children anxious.

Shouting occasionally as a behaviour management technique - I'm fine with that, particularly when it's controlled fake anger.

Shouting because a teacher has lost control of themselves and the class/ a particular pupil - far from ideal, but knowing what teenagers can be like I do sympathise.
I can still visualise one of my teachers at secondary school shouting, becoming bright red in the face and knocking a desk over. We were all shocked into silence, but at the same time very aware that he'd lost control.

If a teacher shouted at my dd, my focus would be on what she had done that had led to the teacher shouting at her.

From the little you have shared it sounds like your sons defiance has caused this. He needs to not be defiant and follow instructions. How about you focus on your sons behaviour and not the teachers reaction. (when your son sees that your reaction is to complain about the teacher, this will further enshrine in his mind that he is right to be defiant).

Onatreebyariver I agree with your completely. Teachers have a hard enough job already without parents failing to back them up. I also think that life being unfair is a good lesson for kids to learn. I've been shouted at by bosses. Unfair? certainly! Anything you can do about it when you have under two years service? Fuck all!

Onatree you have hit the nail on the head. So many parents fail to back the school and this is where the students learn that they can "ignore" the school because mummy will back me up.

Deal with your sons behaviour.

It's wrong for anyone to shout in anger at someone

Teachers can act being angry. They may shout when actually they’re perfectly calm. It’s part of the toolkit.

i’d be focussing on what my son had done to warrant it rather than a one-off incident of a teacher shouting at him.

You have no idea what actually went on so I’d be taking your son’s colourful description with a head of salt until I’d heard the other side if I were you.

If your son is behaving defiantly to a teacher in Y7 he needs to learn sharpish how to behave or he’ll have a long, hard road to travel until he leaves.

You need to speak to the school. Ask what happened. Don’t be “affronted”. Could be that he really was a totally defiant nightmare and this member of staff just lost it. (Not great) Or maybe he’s trying to make a complaint about the member of staff to draw attention away from his poor behaviour.

8 weeks in to a new school and already your 11 year old is being that defiant that it has warranted an isolation and a reaction from the teacher that I would be (as a parent myself) focusing on that and not meeting with the school to discuss the relationship between the teacher and your DS. This doesn’t sound like a constantly ‘shouty teacher’ but a situation that has understandably resulted in this level of telling off.
It sounds like your DS is subconsciously deflecting from his behaviour by describing it as ‘right in my ear and spitting with madness’ and focusing on that to try and vindicate himself (which anyone would do naturally) and as a parent, I would be supporting the school in their behaviour management. It’s good for them to nip things in the bud early on and you don’t want your DS to even have an inkling that he can minimise future behaviour.