GCSEs 2018 (9) Will we get to half term, for never was a story of more woe than this of Juliet and who is Banquo

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Thread 8

If your child is in top set and highest grade is a 9 the children will feel they have to get that top grade because they are in the top group.

But if they are in the top set, then they can also do the maths i.e. 1/40 get a 9, so that's a lot rarer than being 1/6 or 1/7 or 1/8 that it takes to get into the top set, particularly in mixed ability schools.

Teachers only have time to teach the huge curriculum. Reading round the subject etc is up to the child. If they want people to think outside the box then you will have to narrow the subjects taken in order for teachers to teach thinking outside the box pfff!

But if they are in the top set, then they can also do the maths

Let's just say that for my top set English DD, I wouldn't guarantee that she can do the maths...

If there are 100 in your year, then on average, you need to be in the top 2 for that subject to get a 9.
If there are 200, then statistically speaking, you need to be in the top 4 of the top set to be in the running to get a 9.

I beg to differ mmzz because psychologically DC don't think like that. They are all aiming for higher grades. They are expected to get 7-9 in top sets or they wouldn't be in the top sets. What us realistic for a DC is not necessarily what they feel they should get.

If I sound irritated, its because DS's maths teacher (who should be able to do the maths), is predicting 9s for 9/180 students. So, either he's a fabulous teacher (he's reasonably good), or he's got a cohort of exceptional mathematicians (he doesn't - evidenced by the fact that he only finished teaching a couple of weeks ago), or he's just setting several students up for a fall.
He can do the maths though. So no excuses there.

Gotta go order a car!

Top set = expectation of 7-9 (i..e. top 20% ish) absolutely. Expectation of 9 though?

Last year you only needed 75% to get a 9. In my mathy book that's only worth a 7. So it us all about perception.

75% put you in the top 2% of marks though? Sorry I don't know where the 75% came from?

Oh God I despair - 15 and 16 year olds shouldn't have to "read around the subject" to get grade 9's - that's for FE and HE imo. They need some time to be teenagers and pursue their interests. I don't know why I am feeling impassioned though - its not like dd is expected to get 9's

KittiesInsane - I can absolutely see why being predicted a 9 in English Lit would unbalance your dd and make her second guess herself. It can be a burden in a way

I agree with TeenTimesTwo - focus on what is required for the next step. With respect to 8's and 9's being significant at a later stage for University - probably only for a very small subset of degrees at a small subset of universities? University of Liverpool is Russell Group, its Sports Science department is very highly rated and they require 3 B's at A level for a Sports Science degree and have no spec for GCSEs other than a 4 and above in English and Maths. I cite this example only because I was looking for dd (who will either go to Art school or do Sports Science - to be determined)

Confession - I might have made a school girl error and found the degree at Liverpool John Moores Uni rather than the Russell Group University of Liverpool on double checking

15 and 16 year olds shouldn't have to "read around the subject" to get grade 9's - that's for FE and HE imo. They need some time to be teenagers and pursue their interests.
Absolutely

But actually - genuinely would like to know (as I haven't researched it and some of you will have) how prevalent will it be that students will need stellar GCSE results to access good courses in Higher Education?

I do see that these days with no AS grades, that universities will look back to GCSE grades to support A level predictions when making offers. So I can see why kids aiming for the top unis will be wanting 8s/9s.

But I do think it is up to teachers & parents to almost downplay expectations of 9s. To really treat them as a bonus. Obviously if you can do every practice question in maths easily then a 9 might be an expectation but for most other subjects I think it is going to be really unpredictable.

I understand that last year in Winchester, out of the 3 high performing comps, only 1 pupil got 3 grade 9s. That is out of 750/800 pupils. I think a string of 9s will be exceptional this year.

hmc i haven't researched it either, but my initial thoughts are that with the disappearance of AS levels, whatever universities have done for setting admissions requirements in recent years, won't be what they will be doing in 2020??

DS would agree with Goodbyestranger on the English paper - it was harder than he expected on the Macbeth question but he did know how to answer it. He was also fine with Scrooge and fear, but I know that would have thrown some students.
I think more popular texts may attract more quirky questions. There's a choice of question on modern texts on paper 2, which will help, but I think students should be expect and be prepared to talk about how characters relate to the writer's themes and how themes are brought out by different characters.
That's why character-theme-quotation-meaning grids are so popular in revision texts and online resources!
On the other hand, goodness knows what they're going to come up with for the poetry anthologies!

x-posted with teentimestwo

LooseAtTheSeams its a bit like that notorious Biology paper (which seems so long ago but was only last week), isn't it? Lots of DC fell to pieces because they were being asked to apply their knowledge in a way that they had not rehearsed in class, and some got on with it, whilst others fell to pieces.

I don't know the English Lit specs, but presumably they can ask anything they like about the books? So it isn't as if the specs say 'Learn these 6 themes, learn these 6 characters'?
If so they could say 'How does the role of the Porter in Macbeth add to the play' or something equally obscure (assuming that is an obscure question of course)?
I guess that's why I think stuff like English will be much harder to predict. if there is a slightly more obscure question, then the highly able will be able to think on their feet, pull out relevant quotes etc, whereas the 'well drilled' may not?

I really don't envy you all this year. We relied so much on past papers for DD1.

It's true that without AS Levels gcse results come more into play, but I'm not sure how many universities/courses require a string of top results. Medicine has always needed stellar GCSEs (generally speaking) and Oxford have always placed a great deal of store by them (they have found there is a strong correlation between gcse results and degree class). But there are a whole host of good universities/courses outside of those two who won't require a full hand of 8/9s I'm sure.

Just to put the grade discussion in perspective - I have an English language gcse class in further education college. All of them are either on their second resit or have come through from functional skills. I have hopes of some 5s. If one of them manages to get the 6 I'm hoping for I will be so delighted! English isn't even her first language! My students will actually be delighted with a 4 in English but I push them to aim higher.
If they pass, they can go on to level 3 classes in the art/media subjects in which they excel or related apprenticeships.

Yes, they can ask anything about the books - the porter one could theoretically happen!

whole host of good universities/courses outside of those two who won't require a full hand of 8/9s I'm sure.

I agree. Let's face it, 50% get university places, and only 5-10% get a 8 or 9 in any given subject. So, applying a bit of probability theory, getting a 8 of them is 0.1 to the power of 8 = 0.000001%

mmzz I think more than that will succeed since they aren't independent events. ie. Someone getting an 8/9 for Physics is also likely to get an 8/9 for Chemistry and Maths. etc.