kings college school vs Wilson ( or Tiffin)

[mumhelp07]

Dear Mums,

                  My DS has been offered a place at Wilson school (Top Grammar school) and Kings college school ( Wimbledon-  Top independent school). Travel time to both school is same; feedback from close family friends is both school academically are same. I am aware both schools are excellent. However, there is 50:50 divide. DS not bothered. 

So not sure. I am sure other mums have had same dilemma before.

Thanks

Polka what do you mean by keeping them separate? From the JS or from other SS years?

I’m not sure who you mean they’re kept separate from either, Polkapink.

If you mean the junior school year 7 and 8s, then they are effectively in a separate school, with separate timetabling and curriculum, so there is no reason why the 2 groups should meet, have common sports teams etc. Doing so would surely defeat the point of having separate 11+ entry into the senior school? The boys who join the senior school at 11+ do so free of common entrance curriculum requirements - the boys in the junior school have largely joined at 7+ knowing they would do common entrance at 13, and do have to follow a separate curriculum.

King’s surely have to do their best by both sets of boys. But there is no reason why the senior school years 7 and 8 should follow the same, common entrance driven, curriculum as the junior school years 7 and 8. I’m sure king’s are perfectly aware of exactly where they want boys to be at year 9 when they come together, and will get them there in an engaging and varied manner, free of external constraints.

A number of highly academic schools, such as Hampton, are in a very similar situation, with significant intakes at both 11+ and 13+. Boys there will have come via Hampton years 7 and 8, but also from external preos at 13+. I don’t understand why the king’s scenario is different and troubling to you?

Your other objections seem to be around the added value relative to a grammar. Personally I would have ironed out my opinion on that decision before I made my child sit the kings 11+.

It is made quite clear in KCJS that you are not a KCS boy until you pass the transfer exam. Headmaster is GS. The lower school boys are part of KCS from day 1. Headmaster is AH. Different schools. They aren’t subtle about it.

Polka - totally understand that your decision is specific to your circumstances and I'm sure not arrived at lightly.

What do you mean by KCS 11+ not identifying raw potential this year?

Polka - the only reason they are kept separate is because of differences in the CE and 11 plus syllabuses. It's not about "ability." For instance, 11 plus does not require you to prove a certain level in Latin or French, though 11 plus boys are likely to be at a higher level in Maths because that is what the 11 plus paper is testing and it's highly competitive. They're all bright boys, just working to different syllabuses and times-scales and jumping through different hoops. By Year 9, they can start GCSE together.

Also, just for comparison, Latymer Upper has fiercely competitive entry at 11 plus. 1,300 sit for 140 places (plus another 40 join from the prep). Yet of the 140 intake, maybe half are from state schools and, once in the school, how would anyone know? They're all in the same boat. They all do Mandarin and Spanish from day one, which is new to most. Yes the prep children might have done some Latin which may give them a slight head-start there, but it's negligible really.

My nice things about Kings post.

I whinge (a lot) about the maths but the rest of the teaching is excellent. DS has had some truly inspirational teachers and I like how rounded the education is e.g.the numbers taking languages through to 6th form etc. I think the drama is amazing. The boys are exposed to some truly inspirational visitors/speakers, the most recent was by a parent who has donated £150m to social mobility charities. It is a kind school and I have never heard of any bullying. Despite the constant building work it is still a nice campus and it is a lovely setting to have spent your school years in. DS has made some very good friends.

When we first visited Kings we were shown around by an older pupil who had previously attended DS's prep. I looked at that boy and I thought if DS turns out anything like you I will be so happy which at the time seemed a very long shot. But looking at DS now he is very similar. Would that have happened anyway? who knows? DS is very happy he went to Kings and that's what really matters.

Anyone seeing the school now will see a different campus to what I saw years ago and will be aware that there is less space on site and that sports will have to take place at Kingsway so won't whinge about having to drive there after school. I am also reliably informed that the level crossings by Kingsway could be removed as part of the Crossrail 2 upgrade so let's hope that happens soon.

Polka - Kings boys tend to be very rounded and the general attitude seems to be that a boy will excel in something if they have a particular interest in it because they will devote more time to it. The schools offers the usual olympiad opportunities for the sciences etc and recent pupils have won medals at the international events. There are huge opportunities for drama as there are lots of plays, and not just in their own theatre they also take a play to Edinburgh. There are lots of societies for linguists, scientists and all and regular visitor/speakers for every subject area and also sometimes just someone like Peter Hitchens to provoke a reaction and give them something to think about. There are talks most weeks. There are also regular themed events for those who may be interested in pursuing a particular career and wanting to find out about it. It probably all sounds career focused but traditionally the senior school is 13+ entry and its a time to choose GCSE options with a view to narrowing these for IB/A level.
I agree with PP and I believe that you have made the right decision for your family. If someone is happy with an outstanding state primary, which lets face it in SW London is an average for the area state primary! why on earth would they not be happy with one of the top senior schools in the country? I am sure your DS will excel at Wilsons.

Polka - Kings boys tend to be very rounded and the general attitude seems to be that a boy will excel in something if they have a particular interest in it because they will devote more time to it. The schools offers the usual olympiad opportunities for the sciences etc and recent pupils have won medals at the international events. There are huge opportunities for drama as there are lots of plays, and not just in their own theatre they also take a play to Edinburgh. There are lots of societies for linguists, scientists and all and regular visitor/speakers for every subject area and also sometimes just someone like Peter Hitchens to provoke a reaction and give them something to think about. There are talks most weeks. There are also regular themed events for those who may be interested in pursuing a particular career and wanting to find out about it. It probably all sounds career focused but traditionally the senior school is 13+ entry and its a time to choose GCSE options with a view to narrowing these for IB/A level.
I agree with PP and I believe that you have made the right decision for your family. If someone is happy with an outstanding state primary, which lets face it in SW London is an average for the area state primary! why on earth would they not be happy with one of the top senior schools in the country? I am sure your DS will excel at Wilsons.

The difference in travel time is significant I think. The amount of down time your child has is important.

Polkapink, I think the one point you’re missing is that it isn’t just the KCJS boys and the 11+ boys in the senior school who will come together in year 9. There will also be a significant 13+ intake from other, external prep schools. This is exactly the same as in any 13+ intake school. Mixing the 3 ‘sources’ of boys (under the current method) is surely no more likely to cause problems than the old method of mixing boys from 2 sources (when there would have been a larger 13+ intake from external prep schools, as king’s senior wouldn’t already have filled some places at 11+).

Hampton school has two main entry points, 11+ and 13+

At 11+ the Hampton prep boys join the senior school, plus those coming from state primaries.
At 13+ a second large intake arrives, massively changing the size of the year group. The classes are all re-set, the two intakes are mixed.

There is a definite shift to boys moving at 11. The Mall (Twickenham) has now stopped yrs 8 & 9. 11+ is the exit point, not 13+/CE.

I find it a bit strange that KCS don't now scrap yr 7 & 8 in the junior school with all prep boys moving to the senior school at 11.

Or as others have said on this thread, it could be setting the groundwork for moving to co-ed.

KCJS couldn't just scrap Year 7 and 8 as they have a whole school of boys who entered the school expecting to stay until Year 8.

As others have said the two schools are separate entities. Some (not many) boys will be moving onto other schools via Common Entrance and the school has contracted to prepare them for that i.e. Prep school). If KCJS wanted to ditch year 7 and 8 and CE (or transfer exam) they would need to carefully manage the process and parents because there are 6 years olds who have just accepted a 7+ offer whose parents have entered into a contract with KCJS for the next 6 years.

I'm glad that OP has made her choice and is happy with it but I think it's important to accept that other parents (myself included) have made different choices. As a KCJS and KCS parent I'm happy with the education (in the broadest sense) my sons are receiving and believe it is money well spent. It's not perfect but then again no school is.

I would add that if anything the 11+ cohort have an advantage because they have been exposed to the teachers, sports coaches and schedule of the SS. The other two cohorts are joining “their” school.

The Mall shut yr 7 & 8 with only a year's notice.

The KCJS just doesn't make sense to me if KCS is now starting at yr7 albeit with a small intake... Watch this space

Just to add re Hampton although it's not related to OP, they have 20 assured places from Prep plus I guess they take more if they do well in entrance exam, this year I'm hearing the positive response was so great by 1st March that they are increasing to possibly 7 classes rather than standard 6, (they had enough yes replies before 5th March to fill more than 6 classes). At 13 they have around 65 places, so in total it will be a year of 200 ish with only 20 assured from the Prep and yes they mix everyone up. I'm also hearing people choosing Hampton at 11 over KCS for some of the reasons listed below.

great to see so many post and valauble insight.

The decision making process has so many facets to it.

Apart from this forum, I have spoken to many other mums who are and have been in similar position.

each have own perspective and no one has regretted their decision. Still it was great to see so many post helping towards making the right decision.

summary-
In terms of academic and extracurricular, both are at par.

I think the difference is only the friends u make and network u create.

Hope I not regret my decision

Hope I don't regret my decision

time will tell

Well you'll never know what the other school might have been like so you have to throw yourself wholeheartedly behind the decision you've made. You can always reconsider for sixth form.

@MrsFantastic

I know two boys, who rejected places at KCS for Wilson's or Tiffin. They haven't regretted it.

I have two sons at Wilson's. Wilson's isn't the crazy hothouse often portrayed in these threads. They put a big emphasis on extra curricular activities. They are particularly strong in music and there is plenty of sport for boys who like it.

I do get sick of people getting their children tutored for private school exams and interviews and then talking about the "pressure" of grammar school entry and the "obsession" of grammar school parents. Most people tutor to get their boys into KCS too even when they are already in a feeder prep school. And the grammar schools don't do interviews.

One area where Wilson's is weak, however, is in computer science. They don't seem to be able to recruit enough teachers (a problem at all schools generally). My son in year 10 is doing GCSE Computer Science, but the subject hasn't been offered to the current years 9 or 8 (they start GCSEs in year 9 at Wilson's). There aren't any coding or computer science clubs when you would expect there would be plenty of boys interested in it. I don't know what computer science is like at KCS, but it could be a consideration if your son is particularly into it.

If your son is interested in music, sport or the Army or RAF CCF then the school is great for extra-curricular. It is also good on classics/Latin. They enter a lot of national science, maths, history etc competitions and do really well in them.

Hi, Just seeing this threa, woudl yu think compuer science at Wilson's has improved in the past few years?Thanks you MrsFanstastic

Would you consider Wilson and Tiffins at the same level academically and In extra curricular activities? We have to submit the CAF and are very confused about the which one to select as our first option. Distance wise Tiffins is closer to us. Unfortunately we haven’t had the opportunity to visit the schools in person as there weren’t any available due to Covid restrictions. Any inputs would be appreciated. Thank you.

if all the same pick whichever is closer

Thanks. We have no idea if they are similar in academically and for extra curricular activities. Any advice from experienced parents will be appreciated.

@MomsTheWorld , pick the closest, drive past them both this weekend if it helps, the Tiffin boys sports ground is in Thames Ditton.