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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Going for better school...

231 replies

user789653241 · 19/01/2018 13:32

I had a thread here before and had great advice from a lot of posters regarding going for scholarship and bursary.

DS is exceptional at maths, and also doing better than average in English, and he is in YR5.
I had a talk with my ds in depth, and he doesn't seems to want it at all, like preparing for entrance exam etc. He is very strong willed and wouldn't do anything he doesn't want to. So preparing for the entrance exam will be unlikely.
He says he is happy to go to local sinking school with his friends. Destination isn't great, I am not sure if they do actually accommodate his needs or not and only goes up to 16.
What I really wonder is, can he be able to go further is he wanted to, even after attending sinking secondary school?
I really don't want to send him to where he doesn't want to. But worried his outcome maybe restricted. I don't think many will go to further education at this school, many end up leaving school as fast as they can.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 22/01/2018 20:11

Yes it does sound as though this DC has a good maths/ life balance at the moment.

Somerville · 22/01/2018 20:14

Fields Medal is awarded to mathematicians under 40, for example.

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2018 20:17

Under 40? The op’s child’s got a while then!

AHungryMum · 22/01/2018 20:26

Not read the full thread but unless its truly terrible, a kid that gifted is going to do well anywhere. What are the top sets like at the local state school? If the top sets do well despite the school overall being not that great, you should be fine. Look at what Ofsted says about their provision for particularly able students (apologies if I'm repeating what others have already said!)

How does your son react to competition? Would he respond well to everyone else around him being as high achieving as he is and thus suddenly feeling more average, which would be a risk at a really high performing school, or would he respond well to the challenge? Some students work better as big fish in small ponds.

Good luck to you and your son whatever you decide to do.

Xx

sendsummer · 22/01/2018 20:30

Bertrand it is not about racing through Al level (although these mathematicians could do it almost in their sleep certainly by midteens), it is about developing thinking.

I understand that those destined for a high level research discovery will normally achieve this by being far ahead of their very able undergraduate peers in intuitive maths and proofs.

MumTryingHerBest · 22/01/2018 20:33

a kid that gifted is going to do well anywhere

Perhaps not so well at a school that doesn't offer A levels though. The OP states: "only goes up to 16"

Somerville · 22/01/2018 20:33

He sure has Bert Grin

I of course know nothing about OP's child ability. I'm just going by the slightly awed tone from a few posters who seem to know something about him. But back in my academia days (though to be clear; I am not and was never a mathematician!) I would come across the occasional young prodigy. So I know it can happen, though a lot more rarely than is portrayed in our media. And I think that talent of that nature shouldn't be stymied by the limits of our generally pretty good, but necessarily ranged around the average pupil, education system.
If OP's child is one of the very few, there will be people out there who could advise and mentor him.

cantkeepawayforever · 22/01/2018 20:36

And I think that talent of that nature shouldn't be stymied by the limits of our generally pretty good, but necessarily ranged around the average pupil, education system.

Exactly that. Though I would extend 'average;' to, probably, the middle 85-90% of the ability curve, that big hump in the middle of the bell curve, who are served well in the vast majority of schools both state and private. it is the extreme outliers at each end, in one subject or in many, who may need specific provision or specific institutions.

Original poster
user789653241 · 22/01/2018 20:40

Bertrand, I don't want my ds to just shoot ahead with maths. I am not planning to push him and make him take exams early or anything at all.
What I want is for him to have someone who understand him and guide him. In the past, I posted the thread about pi and odd/even numbers. When he has questions like that, I would like him to be able to talk about it in depth with someone, which I can't.
His life isn't only about maths at all. He does martial arts at high level and learning to play piano. In both, he has great teachers. He loves art as well, which I can help. But with maths, there aren't anybody around him to guide him.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 22/01/2018 20:45

what is the benefit to a child of working so far ahead in one subject?

From what I know, the OP's DS has been entirely self-driven in this regard and rather than receiving tuition of any kind has been teaching himself from internet-based programs of study and Khan Academy.

What would be the benefit to the child of restricting their choice of leisure activity because it is also a school subject?

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2018 21:07

“What would be the benefit to the child of restricting their choice of leisure activity because it is also a school subject?”

No benefit at all. But if that is the case, i’m not sure why the maths is relevant to choosing a school......

noblegiraffe · 22/01/2018 21:14

Because, Bertrand no one with any particular mathematical expertise (no offence irvine) is overseeing what this boy is doing, steering him along the right path, correcting his misconceptions or sharing his enthusiasm.

And that's not a good thing.

If by the time he has got to secondary he has covered the KS3 and KS4 curriculum (or has he? If no one is assessing him accurately?) then what would a school that stops at 16 have to offer him for the next 5 years?

Thehogfather · 22/01/2018 21:16

Even if he is banned from working ahead at home, and is taught by the mediocre (or even bad) until he's 18, he's still always going to be far ahead because he'll always grasp concepts so much quicker. Or more likely not even need to learn them because from his PoV many/ all GCSE topics will fit into the ridicuously simple category.

I don't even think whether he progresses from an exam/ educational perspective is the main issue if he isn't taught at his level. Least suitable school or perfect, his end exams will still be the top grade. But if he's turned off maths by the tedium of simple (for him) maths, he's less likely to pursue it beyond school. And if he does pursue it he won't have the resources to cope when he does come across maths that he finds difficult.

Who knows, maybe he'll go down a different route entirely, but he should have a fair choice between eg MFL and maths, rather than because his love of maths has been ruined by unsuitable teaching.

goodbyestranger · 22/01/2018 21:26

OP I don't think parents should feel they need to be able to converse at a high academic level on each and every subject in the curriculum, and that if they don't or can't that they're somehow failing their children. I've certainly never had maths conversations with my kids, or any academic conversations come to that. I don't feel I've failed them on account of that.

goodbyestranger · 22/01/2018 21:29

noble I haven't been on a G&T thread in my life, but I'm curious as to how you can judge this child's talent so precisely. Lots of DC are precocious in maths in Y5 aren't they?

AalyaSecura · 22/01/2018 21:41

Having read and joined in on the primary boards for a fair few years, I can partially answer that - I've always been impressed by irvines commitment to support her ds where she can, I've never seen such a sponge for insight and information as she is! Which means she has regularly posted pretty specific information on what her ds is working on, what his questions are etc, to try to support him as much as she can.

Irvine, I'm really glad you're thinking about this now, I have a lot of admiration for all you've been doing to support him.

goodbyestranger · 22/01/2018 21:52

Ah ok, I haven't really looked at primary threads for ages either.

noblegiraffe · 22/01/2018 21:55

Goodbye I can't judge this child's talent precisely. I don't know him, haven't seen any of his work or anything like that. It does worry me that no one in real life has actually picked him up and assessed him either. What I'm going off is what irvine has posted over the last couple of years about what her DS has been working on, and questions that he has been able to answer.

It is not unusual to be precocious in maths in Y5, but it is unusual to be so obsessed with it that you spend a lot of your free time teaching yourself new concepts from the internet.

Thehogfather · 22/01/2018 22:07

I don't think it has to be the parent either goodbye. But they should have access to somebody who is able to converse on their level and offer help when needed.

Jafinar · 22/01/2018 22:11

I may think about boarding in the future too, if his health issues get better and has less check ups. (It's mostly managing meds regularly, so he has to get used to it soon or later.)

Are you aware that most boarding schools will have a qualified nurse on-site all day and a sick bay for medical isolation? Plus the Matron who sleeps on site will often have a medical background.**

At one point my DC needed medication giving 5 times a day.* Nurse & Matron did this.* Once they are deemed old and mature enough by the nurse they are then able to manage their own medication, depending on what exactly it is.

Also, depending on the school, they may be able to escort DC to hospital appointments.* Certainly a lot of boarding Preps are happy to do this, you can always check with the various Senior Schools.*

Also, keep in mind that many schools offer boarding for a few nights a week or Monday - Friday, so perhaps that could be a good in-between solution?

noblegiraffe · 22/01/2018 22:11

goodbye your kids went to superselectives, so you didn't have to worry about failing with regard to academic conversations. They were getting that input elsewhere.

Jafinar · 22/01/2018 22:13

Please ignore the incorrect bolding!

goodbyestranger · 22/01/2018 22:24

Yes I've acknowledged the good fortune of happening to live close to a good secondary school noble. I couldn't have made up for the failings of a poor local school so it was fortuitous. That said, it surprises me that parents identify exceptional talent where teachers don't seem to. I could work out that a DC was generally bright but I wouldn't have noticed a maths prodigy or any other prodigy come to that.

Jafinar · 22/01/2018 22:35

OP I worry that your son will not thrive in the school you describe. I think he will need somewhere which is accustomed to teaching children with very high ability in one area.

I would imagine all of the top 13+ Preps will have encountered children of his abilities before. Why don't you find the ones in your area and contact them?

Or give us a vague idea of where you're located and we can suggest some.

Original poster
user789653241 · 23/01/2018 07:06

goodbye, I totally agree with you, I never said my ds is genius or prodigy. He has very good memory and good at pattern spotting from early age. His obsession was always numbers and letters.
Exceptional at maths was said by his past teachers. School was quite helpful up until yr2.
Unfortunately, our school is lower than national average so the most of the resources go to bring up the level of struggling, which one of his past teacher admitted. Also a lot of the teachers seems left and replaced by the NQTs, I don't think they have enough experience or time to support him.
But like noble says, nobody actually assessed him properly, so he maybe quite ordinary and I could be worrying for nothing.

OP posts:
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