Going for better school...

[user789653241]

I had a thread here before and had great advice from a lot of posters regarding going for scholarship and bursary.

DS is exceptional at maths, and also doing better than average in English, and he is in YR5.
I had a talk with my ds in depth, and he doesn't seems to want it at all, like preparing for entrance exam etc. He is very strong willed and wouldn't do anything he doesn't want to. So preparing for the entrance exam will be unlikely.
He says he is happy to go to local sinking school with his friends. Destination isn't great, I am not sure if they do actually accommodate his needs or not and only goes up to 16.
What I really wonder is, can he be able to go further is he wanted to, even after attending sinking secondary school?
I really don't want to send him to where he doesn't want to. But worried his outcome maybe restricted. I don't think many will go to further education at this school, many end up leaving school as fast as they can.

I could get into a debate with you about it bertrand but this thread isnt actually about us

The thread may not be about you and Bertrand Hopping but it certainly suggests that comps are viewed by a lot of MN parents as not equipped to service the needs of the more able.

Disclaimer: none of my DC have attended a comp but then the nearest state school and thus the most convenient happens to be a super selective. I was never going to go the extra mile (well two actually) to send them to the comp.

Hope this helps! My Dgc were pretty average at junior school. Went to local Comp with pretty bad reputation. And because they were encouraged by teachers and at home did very well in GCSE's. Continued at local Sixth Form, attained excellent A and A* and both at Russell Group Uni.

"it certainly suggests that comps are viewed by a lot of MN parents as not equipped to service the needs of the more able."

The thing is, the OP's child isn't 'more able'. They are exceptionally able in a single area of the curriculum.

I am against grammar schools for the 'above average' child - I have 2 children firmly in the 'more able' camp, very well educated at the local comp.

However, selecting the best school for an exceptionally gifted child is different. In the same way as an exceptionally gifted ballerina would be directed towards the Royal ballet school, or an exceptionally gifted musician towards a specialist music school, suggesting that an exceptionally able mathematician should be directed towards the relatively few schools nationally who have experience with -perhaps even a peer group for - a child of such ability is entirely sensible, and wholly different to the well-worn argument as to whether a child in the top quarter of ability should be in a grammar or a comp.

Honestly, OP?
If one of my children was as advanced mathematically as your son is described in this thread, I'd be entering them for things like the Junior Maths Olympiad, in large part to get them in front of adults who can recognise the talent, and advise.
I'd also be looking at applying to the top academically selective private schools in university cities. Places like Magdalen College School in Oxford.

Yes can'tkeepawayforever I get that the OP's son has been judged exceptionally able but the other posters' DC aren't all at that level as far as I can make out.

My DC are at the very top end of the top quartile judging by their public exam results and I certainly didn't seek out anything very, very special for them. Normality through the growing up years has enormous virtue. I think the OP should be careful not to bow to pressure to make her DS feel super special.

Somerville the OP may be nowhere near Oxford and if she isn't, since MCS is a day school, it would be absolutely no help, nice school though it is.

I don’t believe that some Comps ARE able to service the needs of the most able pupils and I am pretty sure from my own research and talking to other parents that the Comp I’m referring to ( which has recently been deemed inadequate by Ofsted) isn’t.

“I could get into a debate with you about it bertrand but this thread isnt actually about us”

No it isn’t. But it is about schools. And your post was potentially extremely misleading and could not be left to stand unchallenged.

I am wondering if you would consider a prep for two years and then see where he would like to go at 13 having already registered for the top independent boarding schools? They may well offer bursaries too so it would be a half way house regarding a future independent school, so to speak. Do you have a good one near you?

I do know two young men who have gone to Cambridge to do Maths (one ranked 18 in first year exams) from a Bucks state Grammar near me that is not super selective. These schools cater for all sorts of talents so a suitable Grammar could fit the bill. I do agree that a good boarding school would be vigilant with meds.

As an aside: on other threads there seems to be a clear bias against privately educated children who “trump” other children when applying to university because of their rich backgrounds and better teaching. I note with interest how keen everyone is for Irvine’s DS to join the privileged chasers!

Normality through the growing up years has enormous virtue.

I would, generally, agree. None of the Maths Olympiad participants I knew from my era were particularly 'normal' - in fact they were and remain rather unusual individuals, which was nothing to do with their schooling and all about their particular abilities and characters.

I suppose that colours how I imagine irvine's DS - as them when young, and so i think 'what would have made them happy'?

I'm just saying what I'd do, -goodbyestranger. And that's apply for that kind of school, and then move to the area where the child got a place.
I wouldn't send them to local school with no sixth form, because the chances are low that a staff member will be experienced and knowledgable enough to extend and advise them. I wouldn't bother applying to non-selective independents -pointless for a child of this talent. I wouldn't send an 11 year child to board, whatever their talents. (or I'd be recommending Winchester instead) and I wouldn't move to a grammar area.

I know that at one of the girls schools in oxford, pretty much sister school to MCS, there is a youngish girl who works 1:1 in mathematics with a teacher who has a D.Phil. And that she attends lots of events at the University, and is mentored by someone there. Which is why, for a boy, I recommend talking to schools like MCS.

For the future? www.kcl.ac.uk/mathsschool/home.aspx

On a broader point, what is the benefit to a child of working so far ahead in one subject?

You're generalising from the Oxford particular Somerville because that's where you live, so understandable. Don't assume that that sort of arrangement is peculiar to Oxford though. OP has said her DH refuses to move from wherever they are and even if he was willing, some mere mortals have jobs to consider. Moving simply isn't an option for a great many people, however special their kid. Kids still need to be fed, clothed etc.

Yes quite (apologies for agreeing for once Bertrand!). What on earth is the need to push a child on to an excessive level? Even if he was to succeed in an International Olympiad - so what? (DS1 turned down the opportunity ta attend one because he preferred to go to France with his sixth form friends for a couple of weeks, it hasn't affected his life negatively in any way, as far as I can tell anyhow).

Reverse it - why should an exceptionally able child not be allowed to access the next step in their 'strong' subject?

What is the benefit to the very able child dancer of doing advanced ballet at RBS rather than working through Grade 3 in weekly lessons locally? Or taking Grade 8 violin at a young age and going off the Chetham's or Yehudui Menuhin? Equally, why should a child for whom that is the correct and natural 'next step' in their learning be prevented from taking it?

I think there is a difference between a child who is 'pushed' to reach a level and a child who 'can naturally reach a level given the correct teaching'. Pushing a child beyondtheir ability - that's not healthy. Allowing a child to go where their natural ability takes them, without putting an artificial limit on it? Desirable.

My answer would be because they're far too young to be narrowed down into a single direction by their parents in Y5. This child might very well have other exceptional talents which need time to flower - maths is such an obvious skill to identify at an early age, exceptional talent in other areas usually presents itself later.

Also, any risk of being excluded from being 'normal' in childhood and adolescence is a risk not worth taking, to my mind, however many International Olympiads are at stake.

All you really need to watch out for if you go the private route is that the school you choose is academic enough. A good fit counts for a lot.

However, if a school does it well (I have known schools do similar to Somerville's example), then the child is 'normal' for the vast majority of the timetable. They just do Maths lessons elsewhere. It's a bit like the model of co-located Special Schools / units within mainstream for those with SEN - integrated when that is in the best interests of the child, specialist provision when not.

I apologise. I seem to have sidetracked the discussion with IMO. The OP's question was solely about whether a local school with few high ability children and no sixth form was appropriate for an exceptionally gifted child.

You're generalising from the Oxford particular Somerville

Erm... no, I specified "in a university city" and "schools like MCS". By which I mean very academically selective schools that have strong links with a university. All sorts of such schools will be able to make similar arrangements for the very rare prodigies.

That's what I'd try do in OP's situation, I reckon.

On a broader point, what is the benefit to a child of working so far ahead in one subject?
I am told by those who know that with technical subject like maths building towards being very comfortable in exploring more advanced concepts and thinking like a mathematician is major advantage to allow productive research years earlier rather than later. That is different to just racing through methodologies.
Having experience of many research mathematicians including those entering Oxbridge in their teens, quite a few are socially isolated and not necessarily producing major contributions that would justify the drawbacks to their life.
Therefore I personally would not prioritise the development of mathematical talent at the expense of developing social life, emotional intelligence and broader curriculum. However it is definitely possible to combine all the above.

and it sounds as through the OP is doing a pretty good job so far.

I think music and dance and sport are different because in order to have a chance of a career in that sort of thing you have to stray young. I have my doubts about those in most cases to be honest anyway, but there is a reason. But no sane person wants their child to go to university before 17 or so, so what’s the advantage in focusing n maths so young? It’s not like they are going to miss out on being a professor because they didn’t do A level at 11......

I think there is a surprisingly young 'peak age' for novel research in Maths - certainly comparable to music / dance/ sport. I'll see if I can find a reference.