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Secondary education

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Original poster

Going for better school...

231 replies

user789653241 · 19/01/2018 13:32

I had a thread here before and had great advice from a lot of posters regarding going for scholarship and bursary.

DS is exceptional at maths, and also doing better than average in English, and he is in YR5.
I had a talk with my ds in depth, and he doesn't seems to want it at all, like preparing for entrance exam etc. He is very strong willed and wouldn't do anything he doesn't want to. So preparing for the entrance exam will be unlikely.
He says he is happy to go to local sinking school with his friends. Destination isn't great, I am not sure if they do actually accommodate his needs or not and only goes up to 16.
What I really wonder is, can he be able to go further is he wanted to, even after attending sinking secondary school?
I really don't want to send him to where he doesn't want to. But worried his outcome maybe restricted. I don't think many will go to further education at this school, many end up leaving school as fast as they can.

OP posts:
Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 08:08

Matilda, I doubt that there will be significant amount of higher ability children who would match my ds, maybe one ot two, if he is lucky.

He is in yr5, doing ks4 work without any effort.

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 08:08

Mmm- is the school op talking about special measures or the like?
Then, maybe has a point if no efforts being made to turn school around.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 08:10

My child an outlier in one subject in particular. Efforts are being made to support that when working above the group. Differentiation is the key and time will tell re if that has worked!

Middleoftheroad · 21/01/2018 08:11

OP my DS (also very bright, think 120 maths SATS) did not get into a selective grammar initially (he was nervous in exam) though his equal ability twin did and is flourishing.

The twin who didn't get in went to comp in Sept. About a week into term he was offered another place at a selective grammar, which he declined as he was initially happy at comp. I had my concerns on here as Noble and others may recall as I was concerned that by one twin at grammar and one at comp, differences may arise.

Several months in and my son (and us) would give anything to have the grammar place back. He's not happy at school and the differences in confidence in learning between the gs and comp is growing. DS at grammar is flourishing, loving learning in a great environment.

DS at comp is in all top sets but low level disruption, some bullying for being bright and teachers don't really bother with him. He's uninspired and has to wait for others to 'catch up'

This is just our story. My brother was a maths whizz, went to that same comp (was bullied for being bright) ended up with a first in Physics from a RG uni and has a fantastic career so every case is different.

However, if I were in your shoes, If I could turn back the clock I would have grabbed opportunity.

We are looking into independent schools ourselves now.

My DS did not 'perform' as well as expected in the 11 plus (even though he did eventually get a place offered) He's far better in class. So I see your point about entrance exams - they can damage confidence if you are not careful.

Good luck.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 21/01/2018 08:13

But if he's that far ahead, he won't have many peers wherever he goes to. My dd is currently in year 6 and we have been told by her school that she is working at ks4 level (which is, frankly, rubbish - I guess they mean that she could probably get 20%, or whatever the necessary percentage is for a grade C equivalent). She'll probably be one of the higher achievers at her state secondary - but, meh. It'll all even out by A level anyway.

SuperPug · 21/01/2018 08:13

Irvine, from what you have said, your son's ability does sound exceptional. I agree with showing him the various schools but also agree wjth noble- whether you is strong willed or not, a big decision about his future should not be really his to make at 10.
I would look at the school entrance exams online. Do they have a NVR first round, is it done on a computer etc. The maths should be a doddle but he would still need to familiarise himself with the types of question. Similarly, the comprehension. If he is very reluctant and that shows, I'm not sure how he would pass an interview however?

SuperPug · 21/01/2018 08:13

He not you

Taffeta · 21/01/2018 08:15

You need to go to the open days. With him.

Ideally you need to go and visit on a “normal” school day, not an evening. That’s when you really get a feel for the school.

We weren’t able to do this with my DS, only attended the open days, which made decision slightly more difficult. With DD, we made sure we visited all options on working days and it gave her a much needed opinion and boost to work to get into her favourite school.

You need him onside.

notangelinajolie · 21/01/2018 08:20

I think you have to take charge here. It sounds like you are in an area where all the kids move up to secondary together? It was easier for us because we are in a Grammar area - so the kids go to at least 8 different secondary schools. My youngest was the only one to move to her school and she went to an introduction day and they did a 'get to know everyone' weekend trip in the August before school started. By the beginning of year 7 they all knew each other.

I suggest you go and look around schools together. If possible go to as many open days as you can. Find out about induction days etc. It's important your son is as involved as possible but tell him he will need to come up with something better than wanting to stay with his friends as a reason for liking a school. He needs to see what's out there.

BertrandRussell · 21/01/2018 08:22

“Matilda, I doubt that there will be significant amount of higher ability children who would match my ds, maybe one ot two, if he is lucky.“

What %age of “ordinary” high attainers are there?

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 08:23

I have just noticed only going up to 16 a worry for you op.
In area we are in not a problem as have excellent sixth form options. If you have good sixth form options around may not be issue for you either.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 21/01/2018 08:29

I agree with taking him to open days. If possible, start with schools that have exceptional maths provision over and above curriculum maths and extra curricular activities that will really interest him. Especially ones that you know the other school doesn’t offer.

mmzz · 21/01/2018 08:34

I think I remember you from the G&T threads.
The problem is we misuse language these days when describing ability. Your DS is exceptional and talented in the Oxford English Dictionary meanings of the word, not in a top 10% -3 in every class - type meaning.
I don't think any normal school - sink or otherwise- will cater for his needs, it's just the worst schools will make the worst job of looking after him.
You need to find a place at a highly academic school that will at least give your DS half a chance of developing his talent. If you don't, then you are putting a square peg into a round hole and he will pay the price for such a bad fit.
Your DH needs to decide on his priorities- his home town or his wife and child.
Your child is too young to make any kind of informed decisions, so don't let him. You are the adult.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 08:35

Middle and SuperPug, yes, that is my worry. We can go for the test without prep, but I think he will definitely fail. He can show great concentration for something, and totally zone out something he isn't interested.

Thank you, Taffeta. I know I really need him onside. But he had so much difficulty as a child, he value friendship and blending into others so much. ( health issue that made him off school in lower primary, and having ASD/ADHD traits made him really difficult to fit in to others.)

OP posts:
Flyingprettycretonnecurtains · 21/01/2018 08:36

Is it worth moving him now to private? If you get a linked private junior goes into senior then all he needs to do is do the year five papers which he will walk and then have automatic entry. That way he will make friends with people whom he is going to seniors now. If a prep isn't linked then they will do exam prep for entrance within school so its just normal and all the kids are doing it. It is easier to change expectations and mould now he is ten than later. I really urge you to take him to visit facilities. For private many are recruiting so someone with your son's abilities is going to cause a bunfight to get him. Do it now rather than wait for transition when he will be more wobbly at potentially being the only one going to a particular school.

BertrandRussell · 21/01/2018 08:38

“For private many are recruiting so someone with your son's abilities is going to cause a bunfight to get him”

I would be very suspicious indeed of a private school that was actively recruiting.

Crumbs1 · 21/01/2018 08:41

I do think peer group is important throughout the teen years and whilst bright children can do well from anywhere there is a greater risk that being different by wanting to learn would turn that bright child into a disaffected teen who didn’t use their gifts.
I’d go and visit a few other local schools or even boarding places. There are plenty of scholarships out there and conversations with heads can be as important as tutoring. Our youngest four were all offered scholarships without any tutoring or preparation. We also received very generous bursaries made possible because of the scholarships. We didn’t transfer to Independent because ours were in a bad school, they were in an excellent local comprehensive. We transferred for pragmatic logistical reasons because I was likely to be very unwell and husband worked away a lot. With the advantages of hindsight we can see the benefits in gave to the younger children. It smoothed their educational journey and meant their brightness was a norm and respected rather than something to either hide or cope with.
I’d agree children shouldn’t be making the decision ps about schooling but should be involved and understand the reasons. Ours were very, very anti changing until they saw their new school and what it was offering.

Taffeta · 21/01/2018 08:42

The blending in thing is really important here.....

I see that to blend in in some schools he’d need to dumb down, not participate in lessons etc.

By visiting schools during opening hours, you can both gain much more of a feel for where he can blend in more.

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 08:46

Well, time will tell re results with my child but don't think dumbing down to blend in at the moment and think school would say something to him if he did!
Plus all pupils at his [and I suspect all] schools follow their own line of progress from individual starting points so obvious if minus progress scores start coming in....

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 08:46

Matilda, your dd is working at KS$ level now in yr6 and have no worry at all, but saying they even out at A levels?

Thank you everyone. I know what I really need to do now. I have to show him the options. And I have to take charge.
It's really great to know I am not being paranoid without reason. Tbh, ds always sounds like he knows what he is doing, being so mature. But I have to keep reminding myself that he is only 10.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 21/01/2018 08:50

A bit puzzled that you won’t say any more about the cohort of the school and its results........

twinone · 21/01/2018 08:52

I think if you asked the majority of 10/11 year olds, they will want to move up to wherever their peers are going, regardless of the school. I know my dd did.

She goes to the grammar, with minimal studying for the entrance exam, and has slotted in better than I hoped for.
Her only desire to go to the local comp is so she has less homework.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 21/01/2018 08:55

OP, what I'm saying is, I don't think my dd is working at that level. Not really. I think they're simply saying that she could access some of the ks4 curriculum. She's bright. She may even be an 'outlier'. I don't honestly know (and I very much doubt that her primary school really knows either).

But what I do know is this. Her primary school (bog-standard - possibly even 'sink' by MN standards) is well able to support her. And I fully expect her state secondary school will too. And if she's truly outstanding, she'll show that. If she's just fairly bright, well... it'll be obvious too.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 08:57

Sorry Bert, there's no puzzle. I am a bit ill for last few days, and can't be bothered to look at the results of my local school and explain why it's no good. I would have done it straight away if I was my normal state.
It's just so much work to go into the statistics etc, and try to explain without outing myself by just posting the school name.

OP posts:
Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 09:01

Matilda, sorry, but my ds have no difficulty working at ks4 level and I know he is a outlier. And school had admitted end of ks1. And they are not supporting my child.

OP posts:
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