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Secondary education

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Original poster

Going for better school...

231 replies

user789653241 · 19/01/2018 13:32

I had a thread here before and had great advice from a lot of posters regarding going for scholarship and bursary.

DS is exceptional at maths, and also doing better than average in English, and he is in YR5.
I had a talk with my ds in depth, and he doesn't seems to want it at all, like preparing for entrance exam etc. He is very strong willed and wouldn't do anything he doesn't want to. So preparing for the entrance exam will be unlikely.
He says he is happy to go to local sinking school with his friends. Destination isn't great, I am not sure if they do actually accommodate his needs or not and only goes up to 16.
What I really wonder is, can he be able to go further is he wanted to, even after attending sinking secondary school?
I really don't want to send him to where he doesn't want to. But worried his outcome maybe restricted. I don't think many will go to further education at this school, many end up leaving school as fast as they can.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 21/01/2018 16:05

“If anyone says "a clever child will do well anywhere" then just disregard the rest because they have no relevant experience”

I eouldn’t say that. I would say “a well supported clever child will do well anywhere.” However, proper outliers might need some sort of special provision for their particular “thing”. It would be a mistake to assume that a private school would automatically be able to provide that. It’s also worth considering whether, if the “thing” is very specific, that it should be focused on too much too young. There is much more to school than maths, (I say maths because it almost always is- I can’t remember the last time I saw a thread where a parent was worrying about whether a school could handle a child gifted in any other academic subject-apart from reading in primary school)

DinkyDaisy · 21/01/2018 16:19

So true Bertrand. Just spoken to my shrugging year 8 about why oh why he put the wrong 'there' all over a piece of work!

noblegiraffe · 21/01/2018 16:23

Oh of course don't send your outlier to a bog-standard non-academic private school, I'd be looking for a highly academic one who might have dealt with students like the OP's DS before.

My high attaining school has seen one such student in a decade+, and it has seen a lot of bright kids. Some students are just in an entirely different league.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 21/01/2018 16:28

I don't know that expecting the school to at least consider his needs during the 3+hrs a week he's timetabled to do maths is focusing on his thing too much though.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 16:54

Thank you everyone.
I have been reading but being a bit ill today to focus.
I had a chat with ds, and he agreed he will visit some schools if we arranged it.

Bert, ds is a very happy child, and enjoys school. He has other interest too, does sports, music, and loves art.

I am happy with his current school, and it's great, but totally lacking in maths provision for years for him made me worried if this will keep going on for years to come. I don't think I am exaggerating if I said he hasn't learnt any maths in last 6 years of primary.
I wish I was good at maths and can help, but unfortunately not. So I do want him to be taught by experts who can understand him. That's all.

OP posts:
mmzz · 21/01/2018 17:18

It could be a lot worse. At least the current school is allowing him to work ahead (to GCSE stuff) rather than making him practice the times tables...

cantkeepawayforever · 21/01/2018 17:26

The thing is, you either need a school which is elitist enough to have a non-zero number of peers for your child [a generation ago, you might have thought of Winchester College scholars, or possibly St Paul's but I don't know whether that is true now - I'm just thinking of exceptional top of Cambridge part III Maths / Maths Olympiad types who are my age peers], or a school that is prepared to be flexible enough to say 'we can't do this alone' [e.g. allow pupils to be massively age-accelerated in Maths only / arrange university lecture streaming for that single child, both of which i have known to happen relatively recently].

Both types of school are VERY rare. Just saying 'a private school' isn't enough. A superselective grammar with an element of flexibility might work.

MumTryingHerBest · 21/01/2018 17:40

A superselective grammar with an element of flexibility might work.

The added bonus is that OPs DC will not need to live in a catchement area to sit the exam so worth giving it a go.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 17:43

mmzz, at current school, he is doing times tables and related division and all the other stuff yr5 do. He told me he sighed once in class when he saw the questions on the test and he was told off by the teacher, that not everyone find maths easy like him. We have worst teacher ever (for him, I think she is a good teacher) this year.

He is doing all the extra maths at home, all by himself.

OP posts:
Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 17:47

MumTrying, what are superselective grammar ? I am not English so the school system is very confusing for me, and my dh(Englis) is no help regarding his education.

OP posts:
MumTryingHerBest · 21/01/2018 17:52

irvineoneohone a superselective Grammar is one that either has no catchment and is heavily oversubscribed (allocates places based on score top down) or a grammar that has a catchement but is so heavily oversubscribed that a very, very high score is required in order to gain a place.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 17:55

Could you give me names of superselective Grammar that doesn't have any catchment? Or does that comes up easily on google?

OP posts:
MumTryingHerBest · 21/01/2018 18:01

The only one I'm familiar with is Queen Elizabeth's School, Barnet.

There are others mentioned here:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45857

Astronotus · 21/01/2018 18:01

irvineoneohone. I have experience of state and indie schools. I have found that the indie was much more able to accommodate my child's exceptional ability in maths (they had previously been at a state). Show your child around some of the indies near you, bribe them if you must. Seeing the better facilities for all subjects, especially sciences, swung it for my child. The teachers have more time for the very able students. In our indie you would probably get up to 50% scholarship.

Astronotus · 21/01/2018 18:04

St Olave's in Orpington, Kent is a boys' superselective grammar with no catchment. In top 5 in country I believe.

Original poster
user789653241 · 21/01/2018 18:20

Thank you.

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 21/01/2018 18:20

Irvine,

There are some of this type of school in various places around the country. If you were willing to post or pm your rough location - e.g. West London, or Norfolk, or Devon, we can probably work with you to identify suitable ones.

Taffeta · 21/01/2018 18:26

Um St Olaves not known for its pastoral care......

Taffeta · 21/01/2018 18:30

There are three other boys superselectives in Kent, all of which select based on highest score in the Kent test.

The Kent test has three papers, each of which need to be passed: Maths, English and Reasoning.

Dartford reserves half its 180 places for in area, and the other two (Judd and Skinners) reserve about 80% of places for pupils that live in West Kent. So out of area places require a very high score.

mmzz · 21/01/2018 18:32

How good is your DS at English, @irvineoneohone?

MumTryingHerBest · 21/01/2018 18:34

How good is your DS at English OPs post states better than average in English

mmzz · 21/01/2018 18:37

I must have missed that bit. I am wondering whether he'll be up to the whole curriculum at a super-selective? I always thought those schools were for excelling all-rounders, but i'm happy to be corrected.

Taffeta · 21/01/2018 18:38

Each paper in the Kent test has usually a passmark of around 106, maximum 140. You need to get the minimum on all three papers, and a minimum overall of 320.

To give an idea, out of area score required to get into Dartford I think is around 390 overall, for Judd around 400. Skinners is changing its admissions for 2019 so expect it will be similar to Judd.

Sounds likely he’d get 140 in Maths so he’d need a combined score of 250-260 in the other two.

MumTryingHerBest · 21/01/2018 18:42

I always thought those schools were for excelling all-rounders,

You are correct but that will be the case for any academically selective school.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/01/2018 19:47

It's tricky. A generation ago, at least, there were a few schools that were notable for taking those with exceptionally spiky profiles - as I said, members of Maths Olympiad teams who were no more than 'OK' at other subjects but went on through those schools to elite universities either to academia or places like GCHQ.

However, from what I read on here, the admissions process is now so large, such an industry of coaching and exam taking and 'selecting by numbers', that I am not sure how those few genuinely brilliant individuals would now fare, even in those schools which used to be their havens.

Might be worth looking at the schools from which recent Maths Olympiad participants have come and work backwards? www.imo-register.org.uk/#E2017

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