ASD in mainstream secondary

[Verbena37]

Hi,
DS yr 7 diagnosed HFASD last winter and has started at secondary two weeks ago.
On a positive note, I think he prefers having lots of new subjects to learn but from a pastoral side of things, I'm just not sure what to expect, and at what level, from staff.

I already met with the SENCo last term so they know his issues and needs yet since he started, and I realise it's only early days, I've been having to email school to point out issues that I would think staff would be more thoughtful about. Stuff like organising his time and not being able to remember noting down homework and not remembering to go to the loo before lessons start etc.

To the staff, I'm pretty sure they think me overprotective but for DS, who has had late night meltdowns for the past two weeks, it's not trivial but things that would enable him to feel less anxious.

Am I hoping for too much? I almost feel apologetic that I have to raise things with them.

sorry that should say "have so many children on their timetable that they cannot possibly realistically be expected to know them all by sight"

I fully sympathise op. I have 2 hf ASD children one in y6 one in y8 and they both struggle with these issues around toilets, break times, group work many other issues. I have to be in contact with the senco regularly. I am trying to get a meeting at the moment. DD in y6 has wet herself three times this term because she doesn't like using the loo in school when it is busy. She also got in trouble for being in the loo for 15 mins during class time this week (she regularly has digestive issues has done all her life) her teacher told her that she would no longer be allowed to go to the loo in class time. This coil be a big problem ds pooed himself at school in y6 and did not seek help from a teacher or ask to go him a lunchtime. He spent the day uncomfortable and smelly .

Teachers do need to understand that asd means that children might not ask for help, or respond to things they are told the same way as other children. Hf does not mean they find things easy to deal with and with the best will in the world fostering independence may take a little longer.

Exactly that......the Ed Pysch report explains how DS won't speak up for himself or ask to do certain things but I doubt whether all of his teachers have read the report....even though it was me who copied it for the SENCO before he moved up there.

Verbena I have never read an EdPsych report for a student - they are kept locked in secure files and are not shared in detail. Obviously some recommendations and any key points will be shared with teaching staff but very much in summary form.

Again it feels that you are criticising teaching staff for not taking the time to read the report you shared; it may well be that they haven't read it because they wouldn't be expected or permitted to.

you can't read every report for every child even if they are available, you would never have the time, and you wouldn't remember the contents anyway...

( remembering one family who's private assessments on their DD occupied an entire drawer of of filing cabinet......she had no SEN to speak of, the only line I remember from all of her reports is the one in which the ed psych suggested she was perhaps suffering from being assessed too much....)

seriously, they are not likely to be available, and if they are, you are looking at THOUSANDS of pages in total anyway, not worth embarking on, not possible to finish, and not possible to remember

The ed psych made some really good key points....and asked that they be issued to all staff who teaches DS.
The SENCO said she would take the copy and give it to all his teachers,

So now, I'm e letting that to have been done. It actually makes recommendations to staff...so for example "DS won't ask for help so alternative monitoring will be needed to assess progress".

Which is why for my DC's secondary school, before each one joined I had discussions with the SENCO in which we agreed on the key points which needed to be understood, and what accommodations could be made. These were then communicated to the relevant staff, and a summary was put in the student file (eg. should be allowed to leave the classroom if she needs to - eg. is overwhelmed).

Longlost10 - the problem with the situation of the child being restrained is: they will have been demonstrating behaviours before the incident which would have indicated that they were not coping. In an good situation they would be being monitored by a TA who would remove them, and give them space to refocus and calm.
In the worst case situation the other child/children should have been removed. That is the child in the wheelchair removed from the situation, rather than a child being pinned down.

DS1 had a wobl watch that we set for certain times during the day to remind him to go to the toilet. It vibrates so is discreet. He is in primary so the school told us what times to set it but ou could set it for 5 minutes before end of break times so he k led he needs to go to the loo before next class?

I did suggest that to himBrie but he said no. I think, when I showed him it, he thought it was a bit babyish and that it would make him stand it and people would know what it was for etc.

Reading these contributions enlightens me as to why dd's support in secondary was initially so dire in spite of her having a good statement
Thankfully the school messed up and I am definitely the wrong parent to mess with so now her support works the way I want it, given by the staff I approved, documented how I want it (which keeps them on task and stops them from slacking or taking the piss) and overseen by the HT which means the SENCo behaves herself as well I'm sure they rue the day they messed up but for dd it was the best thing to happen because now they do it properly.

You can get other vibrating alarm watches that don't look as babyish, fitbits allow you to set alarms, or this one is much cheaper www.amazon.co.uk/Toprime-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Wristband-Pedometer/dp/B01A6L6R8Q/ref=sr_1_18?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1475705233&sr=1-18&keywords=Fitbit

The ed psych made some really good key points....and asked that they be issued to all staff who teaches DS.
The SENCO said she would take the copy and give it to all his teachers,

So now, I'm e letting that to have been done. It actually makes recommendations to staff...so for example "DS won't ask for help so alternative monitoring will be needed to assess progress".

Sorry on app so can't make quote bold!

So Ed Psych said to share key points. That's NOT the same as expecting teachers to read full report. I'm probably about to get flamed for this but I'm wondering how your relate with the SenCo is. It's coming across that you don't trust them to do their job (by photocopying reports etc) and then refusing supports they are offering.

Also the example comment about different monitoring - that would not tell me to expect the issues you've described regarding the ruler or toilet.

Longlost10 - the problem with the situation of the child being restrained is: they will have been demonstrating behaviours before the incident which would have indicated that they were not coping. In an good situation they would be being monitored by a TA who would remove them, and give them space to refocus and calm.
In the worst case situation the other child/children should have been removed. That is the child in the wheelchair removed from the situation, rather than a child being pinned down.

no, that was absolutely not the situation at all, I have seen all the witnesses and read all the statements. It wasn't anything like you are imagining, and it certainly wasn't manageable or foreseeable in any way. The whole suggestion that there was any time at all to remove the disabled child is a long way wide of the mark. I'm not going to go into details, but all your assumptions about this incident are completely wrong, including the TA.

And the child is NOT in a wheel chair, he is perfectly able bodied. However, he has brittle bones, and the force of the collision he was less than 2 seconds away from experiencing would very likely have snapped his spine, and he would most likely have never recovered from that.

I'm just using this incident to highlight some of the difficulties in managing a class room with many special needs in it. Ie, most class rooms. The actions taken by the teacher are to be applauded, but the mother of the child with ADHD cannot see beyond her child was physically tackled. She of course knows nothing about the condition of the other child, or any other children with SEND in the classroom, and is under the impression the class is run with her specific child's needs as a central priority. She doesn't understand they clash with the needs of other children.

She is pushing for the full weight of the law against the teacher, she won't get it obviously, but she will then most likely carry the grievance for years, or even decades, without ever understanding the ins and outs of the situation

She of course knows nothing about the condition of the other child, or any other children with SEND in the classroom, and is under the impression the class is run with her specific child's needs as a central priority. She doesn't understand they clash with the needs of other children.

This is the crux of the problem when the ideal of inclusion cannot be met because of insufficient staff and funding. Parents have high expectations which sometime just cannot be met because children and classrooms are unpredictable. The staff can only do their best with what they have and parents have to accept that other children also have needs and sometimes the other child will be the priority.

margot I'm not distrusting the SENCo at all. What I meant was that because she said she would give the recommendations to all his teachers, I just assumed she has. It's th opposite of not trusting her.....I'm trusting her to do what she said. Of course I don't expect all the staff to read the whole report....I meant just the key points.

Whilst i am biased because it would be my ideal job, I do think that at secondary level, there should be a pastoral head of year for every year group. I know that some schools have pastoral care of school but not sure if they do for every year group.....and someone who has specific SEND training.

In private schools the house master/mistress/matron system works really well and I think that putting more resources (where from I'm not sure.....they need to plant some money trees) into emotional well being, would enable teaching staff to do their job more effectively. Even TAs have their main priority of getting students to achieve academic success and everything is pretty much geared to learning. If there was an academic neutral person, they could deal with the emotional stuff and let the TAs help support in classes more.

One SENCO in a school of over 1000, with keyworkers (say 4) for year groups of over 300, seems rather a mamouth task. A pastoral head of yr could be required to have a counselling qualification or training in mental health and I see that as a way of making schools more harmonious for everybody.

In my DCs school the Heads of year are all High level TAs, there is a different system of monitoring the Academic side which uses teachers. As high level TAs they have experience and training in dealing with a range of SN and other issues, they also can be allowed the luxury of more time to have to concentrate on their HOY responsibilities (so only spend a little time working as a TA, and that with their year group). The school also has a Counsellor and two part-time youth workers, as well as the SN team.
But it has 2000 pupils, and does other activities to maximise revenue (running courses to train school support staff, letting of facilities etc. etc.).

Verbena that's great that you do trust the SenCo - I think I maybe worded badly though; my point was that to the SenCo it may appear that you don't trust them because rather than give them the opportunity to do their job and arrange for pertinent information to be copied and distributed you've done that for them by getting it copied and handing in. It may be that paper copies are not useful anyway - certainly in my school there are no paper copies of student info circulated for confidentiality reasons - everything is securely stored on the server.

I 100% understand that you are your son's best advocate and that you want to do everything you can to ensure that he is suitably supported; believe me when I say I wish every parent had the same focus. You DID say that you wanted mainstream secondary input here though and it really is coming across that every time a poster tries to offer that (or possible suggestions) you are dismissive or unhappy with the reality that is a busy secondary school. I completely get that your son is possibly not seen to be struggling but the reality is that even if teachers know that he is ASD it will depend how often they see him as to how well they will interpret signs of distress. Some teachers (if on a fortnightly timetable) may realistically only have taught him once or twice. Do you genuinely think it reasonable that they can in that space of time have worked out that your DS may have asked out to the toilet just after lunch because of that ASD? I can honestly say it's not something that has been an issue for the ASD students I have taught but as others have said each child is individual. I probably would have said no as well.

I will teach some students over the course of a year for the equivalent of just over 1.5 weeks of class time in primary school. The reality of that is that I am only really getting to know the students towards the end of the year. Yes; I will be aware that your son is flagged as an ASD student and will have read his profile - but I will in the first instance be more aware of the student who has a life threatening condition (or whom I teach several) or who has severe behavioural problems with the potential to cause serious issues in the classroom.

There isn't a perfect solution. Not for students, not for teachers and not for parents. Instead we need to try and work together the best we can to make the best of an imperfect arrangement.

Even TAs have their main priority of getting students to achieve academic success and everything is pretty much geared to learning.

lets not lose sight of the fact that this is the ONLY reason for the existance of schools.....

But children like mine don't learn unless the autism, the sensory,the social and communication needs aren't met. Funnily enough in dd's full time statement I think about five hours (I'd have to tally it up to be accurate) relates directly to learning or is academics based. So TA's do the vast majority of homework in school with her, there is provision to relearn some aspects of subjects when needed (generally in fast paced lessons because she is top set but has processing difficulties) and there is provision for preparation for topics to come as dd requires an overview so that areas where alternative work needs to be provided can be identified in advance. The vast majority centres around communication, sensory, social needs and the requirement for the TA's to provide clerical support and emotional support as required.
Schools should consider the whole child, dd's statement considers the full picture not just the academic, with the support dd has she will achieve the high grades across the board as predicted without the support or poor support dd would not achieve her potential.

Longlost academic learning is NOT the only reason my children are at school.
They are there for over six hours a day and in that six hours, the staff are the responsible careers of my children. I want my kids to be in a safe, caring environment that supports their social and emotional wellbeing before any academics. That obviously doesn't happen for the majority of the time to the same degree I'd expect if I were paying a nanny to care for them but it's still an important point.
Of course, I want them to learn and achieve to their best potential but I also expect them to be cared for....and this is where schools are outdated IMO.

Margot I think I sent a hard copy and a soft copy but the primary school will have forwarded it on anyway I presume.

As people upthread have mentioned anxiety in contrast what you said about not trusting the SENCO to do her job.....as a parent I'm not going to just sit back and relax and not intervene in DS' schooling at all. I need to double check things are in place as they should be. The keyworkers contact parents monthly to let them know of any issues and progress made etc.

I don't think mainstream secondaries are set up to help a child with ASD succeed. There are so many challenges each and every day because of the vast number of staff and pupils the child comes into contact with who all have their own rules and methods.

Too true.

We desperately need state specialist secondary schools for academically able DC with HF-ASD and associated conditions. ATM a lot of money is going to pay for equivalent private placements via Statements/ECHPs, but they are expensive places (£70k-£120k pa) and hard to get (usually won via tribunal).

It's a crazy system.

Things is, one day he will leave school and will at some point probably need to get a job and there won't be a TA or a senco or a parent involved. So th more life skills and independence tools he can develop at secondary school the better even if it's small things like the vibrating watch