ASD in mainstream secondary

[Verbena37]

Hi,
DS yr 7 diagnosed HFASD last winter and has started at secondary two weeks ago.
On a positive note, I think he prefers having lots of new subjects to learn but from a pastoral side of things, I'm just not sure what to expect, and at what level, from staff.

I already met with the SENCo last term so they know his issues and needs yet since he started, and I realise it's only early days, I've been having to email school to point out issues that I would think staff would be more thoughtful about. Stuff like organising his time and not being able to remember noting down homework and not remembering to go to the loo before lessons start etc.

To the staff, I'm pretty sure they think me overprotective but for DS, who has had late night meltdowns for the past two weeks, it's not trivial but things that would enable him to feel less anxious.

Am I hoping for too much? I almost feel apologetic that I have to raise things with them.

I don't know Verbena. Is there not a parent forum locally for children with ASCs?

I can only speak for my school and the answer would be no. Not because we don't care or woulnt find it a good idea but because we don't have many spare rooms, we can't have random adults in the school and I imagine that it would be helpful for a member of staff to attend and simply, they can't. They have timetables!

We would probably be open to hosting a forum outside of school hours though and someone might attend from the SEN/Pastoral team every so often.

On the other hand the school may say no and suggest a neutral location. Whilst parent voice is important to schools often parent forums get heated and it might be better to have a representative meet with the school at a calmer point so everyone concerned can approach whatever issues are raised in a calm manner.

You can but ask.

You need to have a meeting with the school asap. The school will and should be able to support your DS. His needs are individual to him but will be issues that the school has come across before.

I would ask for a meeting with his Form tutor and also SENCO. Schools are busy places and however good and caring a teacher I am there is no way that I could work out your DS needs in the first week of term. Relationships need to be made with the 250 students I teach in a week and obviously that takes time.

Now that you have a clearer view of how the school works and issues that your DS finds difficult then you can make this much easier for the School to offer the support to your DS if you arrange a meeting to explain this to them.

Passes are used a lot either for the loo break or for chill out in a specified room. Staff in the room will welcome input from you to help deal with issues that arise.

A family support group would not be helpful to the school as they will have qualified staff who are able to deal with students needs but they obviously need to be aware of what those are.

Talk to the school.

Cool, thanks.
I group thing I was meaning wasn't related to the school.....I just meant a free room for local parents. I wasn't meaning so they liaise with the school about issues but yes, I see they think of it like that so it wouldn't work.

I'll just sort DS out and worry about the community later.....if I have time .

We wouldn't have a spare room to give out!

And sadly, many primaries absolutely crap at passing on SEN (and CP) files. Really frustrating this far into term and not having vital info on some kids. Not all parents will bother to contact the school themselves.

• are absolutely crap

What I really want is for his teachers (all of his subject teachers) to remember and understand his issues when teachers have 200-300 students, and 10-20% have SEN......

longlost yes.
All of the staff teaching him were supposed to have his details.
I had (probably stupidly) thought they would at least the recent report given by the LEA Ed. Psych because it was brilliant, succinct and really helpful for anybody teaching him.

I would have thought that, bearing in mind they started the secondary school last term for two weeks before the holidays, that the staff would have had ample time to read a one page report, which outlines helpful ways to deal with ds' particular issues.

Currently, the school do give out coloured, laminated cards so that the kids with SEN put them on their desk or hand them to staff at the start of the lesson. However, I feel that's not very inclusive; allowing other children to see the cards and know what they're for. I think a far better option would be to have the cards for each class in the staff members file so they can quickly check before the lesson, who is in their next class and what are their needs.

It surely wouldn't be hard for the teacher to have a page for each class, with brief support needs on it?

E.g. Verbenas' DS - ASD, toilet, introvert, no touching, fidgets.
Mrs Smiths dd - dyslexia, needs green paper for tests, give more time
Mr Lamb's DS - PDA, don't make obvious demands. Ask, don't tell.

I've never been given a kid's ed psych report! We see IEPs on SIMs but they're obviously not on there for Y7 yet.

What we did have was a quick PowerPoint on the INSET at the start of term detailing the kids in Y7 with SEN, a few bullet points for each child like "diagnosed with ASD, weak literacy, struggles with noise". That's it.

Can I ask if any staff in your secondary, other than SEN staff, have autism training? personally, I am massively overtrained in autism, in that I've had months and months of training from different sources, for different reasons, and much of it is contradictory, and little of it is of use when getting to know individuals.

To a lesser extent, have also been trained in dyslexia, dyspraxia, ODD, ADHD, DAMP, PDA, OCD, brittle bone disease, allergy/ anaphalaxis, BSL, epilepsy ( all its manifestations) sensory disorders, perception disorders, language disorders, sickle cell, diabetes, RTS, MCAD, Downs, FAS,Tourettes, NF1, Bipolar, discalcula, cerebral palsy, conduct disorders, attachment disorders, SMD, SID, asthma, APD.............

Just of the top of my head.

And many more besides.

And I am not in a medical career,

The point is, many parents want us to be specifically trained in the specific medical problem that their child has, but actually, no one can possibly remember it all, and yet more training really isn't the answer.

I see what you mean longlost but it isn't really ASD training I think they need.....its training to appreciate how different each child with ASD really is instead of assuming all kids with ASD don't give eye contact, can remember long lists etc. Obviously not all teachers will be like this but many are.

An example of the type of care and support I mean is that when I was learning French GCSE then Level, my lovely French tescher realised I was gifted at French and made sure she gave me lots of challenging work, almost as a parallel lesson that was much more advanced. She took an interest in me as a person, had pretty much as many students as teachers now have and sought me out to update her and give me new work to do at home etc. Now what's the difference there to me wanting a teacher to put that some effort in my children? It can be done.....it's whether they choose to do it. I believe that if you have the passion to want students to learn, you can make the time to make it happen.

It surely wouldn't be hard for the teacher to have a page for each class, with brief support needs on it? the "page we have for each class" runs into many pages. No, there is no time before each class to settle down for a read, and it takes a long time to match each name to a face. I'm sure they have plenty of sheets of information. I have three sheets for each child, one of which would be the succinct report that you mention, but al together, that comes to almost 200 pages, just for the SEN children, not starting on the general information that applies to all pupils.... I'm not saying your child wouldn't benefit from more support, ( who wouldn't!) just that it isn't likely to be available especially if he has turned down the key worker.

It can be done.....it's whether they choose to do it. I believe that if you have the passion to want students to learn, you can make the time to make it happen. I'm sorry, but when you are working a 70-80+ hour week, no you can't make the time. There are teachers unable to make the time to sleep, eat, or see their own children! Maybe many years ago, when a teachers job was actually largely teaching, but the job today is unrecognisable in those terms. I've been in a bigger inner city comp, this week and two teachers in the department have left. One resigned 2 and a half weeks into her teaching career, and one after two days!

That's because any ASD training says stuff like 'don't like eye contact, don't use metaphors, likes routine' because otherwise they'd be saying 'some don't like eye contact, some are fine, some overuse it, some understand metaphors, some will be fine with random classroom changes and homework not being set on the right day and others won't' which is pretty much as useless as the first lot of training.

I've found the only thing that has helped my understanding of ASD is teaching shedloads of children with it. I've been teaching 11 years but nearly half of teachers quit before 5 years.

He hasn't turned down the keyworker. He doesn't even know really what a keyworker is supposed to do. All he knows if that pulled him out of the class in front of everybody for a 'chat' on day one....therefore allowing everybody to know he has additional needs of some kind.

Polter I know what you mean about not stigmatising disability but I also believe in choice and DS, DH and a bit of me too, feel that at present, his friends knowing about his ASD would be detrimental not helpful. He is vrey vocal in telling me not to tell anybody. He knows he is different but isn't ready to tell people that. He just wants to blend in.....I think understandably.

I'm a secondary teacher and I think most secondaries, especially the outstanding ones, are not particularly great at dealing with SEN.

I have just started at a new school. SEN information is really hard to find. I usually just see the SEN tick in the register and then I have to go hunting for information. Coming across "SpLD" and nothing more tells me exactly nothing about your child's needs, and I simply don't have the time to investigate every single one of my 200+ students.
By the end of the school year I will have more of an idea.

I know that this is heartbreaking, but it is the reality as I know it.
Around here there are 2 local-ish mainstream schools that are known to be good for children with SEN.
Does your school have a good SEN reputation locally, OP? If not, it might be worth finding out about it.
Teachers usually know which school would be a good or at least better fit.

to you, Y7s struggle at the best of times.

verbena you must appreciate that your French teacher was putting all that effort into you but they absolutely weren't doing it for every kid.

as with many departments, it is kept afloat by supply teachers, who refuse permanent contracts, and reserve the right to walk out of the door for good at the drop of a hat. One has in fact left "for a rest" today, and says he will be back in two weeks, although I'm not sure he will. He is in fact brilliant. But finds the demands of the job incompatible with family life. Staff turn over is very high, and most schools are short staffed.There is a critical and growing teacher shortage in many areas.

your DS has a key worker, but is not accepting support from her? I don't think it is likely anything else will be offered. When he starts to build relationships with individual teachers he might find it easier, although stability among the staff is not a given.

I hope he settles down well, anyway.

Noble the French teacher did also do it for about four others too. Not just me.
Perhaps it will be easier once they've put into ability sets because at the moment they're still mixed and so I guess the stafwill all change anyway.

Thanks for your advice though everybody.its been very interesting to hear all your thoughts.
Guess I need to appreciate that my son's needs aren't as great as those of other children and just try to implement some of the above ideas to help him.

That's still only 5 out of hundreds of kids. Yes, an individual teacher might have time to take a handful of kids under their wing for hours of extra attention, but it's just not that likely to happen to your individual child. The form tutor should be keeping a pastoral eye on them, the SENCO should have an overview of support, subject teachers will still be learning kids names.

I completely understand where he's coming from Verbena. It's so early days for all of you re diagnosis but ultimately it must be your ds's decision whether to go public or not. It sounds like his self esteem is pretty low right now. Ds's was, having spent the whole of primary school getting into trouble again and again. Finally diagnosed in year 6. He needs time to sit with it for a while first. Feel his feet ( without his socks 😊 ) My ds has told his close friends. I told him that was up to him. He had so many friendship troubles in year 7 but it's really settled down to a nice small group of lads now. There is some help offered in his school like a homework club but he refuses to go "what and be bullied more he says" Kids can be really shits at this age and he really struggles to fit in as it is without drawing more attention to him. It is a shame the help can't be a little more discreet. What child wants to put his hand up when the teacher says right, who's got SEN ? Which is practically what's happens. 😞 What I'm starting to feel though as ds gets older sis somehow I need to help him deal with all this. I cannot change his world around him (especially when he gets out in the real world - at least in school some effort is made but in real life ... 😔) so somehow I need to get him to the point where he can cope with it.

Somehow