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Secondary education

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Original poster

A Level classes - is this acceptable?

84 replies

ZaZathecat · 06/10/2015 07:58

DS has just started sixth form and is saying that he hates one of his subjects (which previously interested him). Main reasons are a) there are 30 people in the class, and b) they have 2 teachers alternating. One is OK but the other 'just gives out book work and doesn't actually teach'.

This seems a bit out of order to me as my experience of sixth form was smallish classes with lots of discussion and teacher explaining or talking to the class. Quiet study was homework or for free periods (which seem to have all but disappeared).

What are others experiences of current A level classes - is this normal/acceptable?

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 08:08

What's the subject? My experience is in maths and science where it is common for teachers to share classes at a level but usually they they teach different topics. 30 is huge for an a level class though.

Regarding the teacher not spending most of the time talking/explaining, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. There should be more independent study at a level than GCSE so the students are better prepared for uni so if he's being set good tasks to do with good feedback that's fine. If he's got a lazy teacher who has just given them stuff to keep them occupied that's another matter.

How many hours a week does he have for this a level? If he has a lot of contact time maybe they're allowing for some of the lessons to be like a free period where they'd be working in the library?

If he isn't happy, could he have a chat with the teacher he likes?

LIZS · 06/10/2015 08:18

Ds has 2 teachers for each subject, they each have different specialisms and they sit at least 2 papers. 30 seems a lot but presumably this is AS so some will drop out next year.

Ladymuck · 06/10/2015 08:23

Funding for 16-19s has changed a lot, so schools need to have larger classes in order to justify running the course in the first place.

noblegiraffe · 06/10/2015 08:25

Crikey I wouldn't want to be a sixth form teacher with 30 in the class, the marking would be horrendous.

What subject is it? I wonder if it is a shortage subject whether one teacher is an actual teacher of the subject and the other one has been roped in so is supervising while the class works through exercises taught by the proper teacher?

PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 08:27

Those were my thoughts exactly nobel, especially if it's an essay based subject.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 06/10/2015 08:30

30 is big! What's the ability spread?

As for alternating teachers, well that can work very well, with both playing to their strengths and interests. But the system of who teaches what and when needs to be firmly set.

Lesson style in sixth form is different. And should be. Less of what pupils have previously experienced as 'teaching'. More discussion. That's not to say your DS is wrong OP, he might just have a crap teacher!

Sparklingbrook · 06/10/2015 08:31

DS has 2 history teachers for A Level each teaching a different topic, but not sure about class size. I will ask him tonight. Out of the 4 subjects it's the one he likes least interestingly.

MummaGiles · 06/10/2015 08:40

I had two teachers for each of my a level subjects. Nothing unusual in that at all.

Original poster
ZaZathecat · 06/10/2015 08:42

It's Business Studies.

That's what I mean SheGot, it should be different at A level - more discussion. What he's getting with this teacher is, they are given a paper with work to do on it, sit quietly in class and do the work - no discussion, no 'teaching'.

I'm not concerned about there being 2 teachers, only that one of them doesn't really seem to do much teaching.

I am very concerned at the class size. I have emailed once about it but was fobbed of with 'oh yes it is unfortunate...'

Not sure how much fuss to kick up.

OP posts:
ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 06/10/2015 08:43

I had 2 teachers for French, for German and for History.

As far as class size goes, I guess that is quite big. Ability level should in theory not be that relevant as presumably they are all post GCSE.

Original poster
ZaZathecat · 06/10/2015 08:44

Not sure about the ability spread. I guess some students are only starting business now while others (like DS) did it for GCSE.

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 06/10/2015 08:44

At DDs college most of the classes are around the 25 mark.
If its AS, chances are after half term the numbers will drop to around that.
If there is more than one class (eg there are over 700 taking maths AS there) then the teachers will do sections of the curriculum with lots of sets.

However, rote book learning does not sound good.
Worth taking up with a pastoral tutor?

PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 08:49

To be honest all a level classes have a huge spread of ability (unless you're amazingly lucky to be in a school that sets for a level-I never have). The sheer numbers of students does mean it's a lot harder to help those who are struggling.

BoboChic · 06/10/2015 08:59

My DSS2, in a French Catholic (private, selective) school was in a class of 37 for the two final years of Lycee. His brother (same school) was in a class of 29.

It was absolutely fine! They learned exceptionally well.

TBH class size is not the be all and end all. My DD (10) is in a class of 8 for History and Geography and 11 for Spanish. It's fine but nothing special.

The quality of teaching is far and away more important than the quantity of pupils.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 06/10/2015 09:02

Large classes are fine for the passing on of information but they don't allow discussion of ideas within the peer group.

BoboChic · 06/10/2015 09:05

I don't agree with that - based on experience! However, large class sizes tend to require more teaching time if everyone is to have their say.

PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 09:06

Certainly in science where there are really difficult concepts to grasp class size makes a huge difference. If all you are able to do is present the material but not spend much time talking with each student and helping those who don't get it the results will suffer. The best teacher in the world can't be in thirty places all at once.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 06/10/2015 09:07

Can 37 people really have their say? In a meaningful way?

BoboChic · 06/10/2015 09:07

I had some very small classes myself at school and, tbh, the discussion ran out of steam after a while. We were very young and rather ignorant Wink

BoboChic · 06/10/2015 09:09

Yes, they can, SheGot. It has much more to do with teaching style than numbers.

noblegiraffe · 06/10/2015 09:10

Forgetting the class work, a teacher cannot mark the work of 37 pupils in as much depth as 20.

PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 09:10

It isn't so much the whole class discussion that is the problem-it is the individual attention and proper marking that a class of that size will miss out on.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 06/10/2015 09:11

I agree with Bobo. In my A level classes there were 4 of us for French, 4 for German and 2 for History.

It was like pulling teeth for all of us.

My largest class at the moment is 34. They say far more than ever I did in those teeny tiny groups.

Original poster
ZaZathecat · 06/10/2015 09:16

I see what you are saying Bobo but in a subject like Business there is a lot about decision making and so on, so exam questions are often of the 'what would you do if...?' variety, and this lends itself to class discussions. I'm not saying they should be doing this all the time but it seems one teacher doesn't really talk to them at all.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 06/10/2015 09:17

There is an optimum minimum for class sizes as well as a maximum-fewer than five students and people often feel uncomfortable talking. I don't think that stacks up as an argued to let classes get as big as the school can fit in.

Same teacher, smaller class (sensible lower limit) the students will do better pretty much every time.

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