Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

[BertrandRussell]

Ds is at a secondary modern school. 7% high ability, of which he is one. Letter home today inviting him in a visit to our local (excellent) university because he has been "identified as talented in one or more subjects"

Fantastic thar the school is arranging visits- it has only just started to send any kids to university at all. The school's catchment means that there are very few parents with more than a basic education, and they are pushing hArd to raise the aspirations of the kids- which is fantastic.

Dp and I have 4 degrees between us. Dd is at a Russell group university. Ds will definitely, if he wants to, go to university. It iseems ridiculous of the school to waste a space on this trip on ds. Should I say something? He's not particularly bothered- except that it means a day off school. If he doesn't go, they could give the space to someone that it might actually make a difference to. Surely they should have thought of this? What do I do? And is it depressing that even in a secondary modern school, privilege attracts privilege?

Oh and completely out of character I always sew name tapes on bar socks and underpants I even in a rare moment of home organisation purchased those stick in shoe label things.

word - I wear crocs sometimes, if my mountain warehouse waterproof sandals have gone astray. So do my kids. This is because they are vegetarian, yet breathable, cheap and waterproof. Also comfy (I have a crocked toe due to a break that didn't heal properly). I do have a dirty car but that's because the seagulls keep shitting on it. It is newish though. Previous vehicle was a clapped out bongo that the AA eventually refused to keep resuming when it broke down. We look like the poor relations compared to all the DCs friends. Also of course...our non floppy (curly :( ) hair. There is no hope for us.

I was slightly struck, when going round my old college with DD1 at an open day last week, by the fact that not only had it barely changed, I hadn't changed much (apart from being older) either. Same hair, same clothes (not the actual same clothes although I do still have and wear clothes I wore when I was a student - but certainly the same style, what I was wearing that day I might easily have been wearing on any hot day in the 80s and actually it's possible I did own the T shirt I was wearing back then, come to think of it). There is no hope for us. :(

I suggested up thread that the OP, as a governor, could easily suggest that the school does more than one minibus trip. She could also ask what the selection criteria was. She is in a unique position to amend the strategic direction of the school regarding widening access. Just complaining about the school on MN seems a remarkably passive action considering what she could be doing. PP children may well not be the selection criteria here because often they are subject to "closing the gap" interventions which may not be good enough to get them to university. This school has only 7% higher achievers. It is highly likely they don't gave large numbers of children queuing up for Russell Group university places and the school has to start somewhere. So they gave devised a selection criteria for year 9. It might be different for year 10 and 11.

I am a PP governor and I do understand about class and deprivation. My previous comment was poorly worded. However widening access is a broad programme and children who do have family with a university background can be a very positive influence on others, and this is widely recognised as being a good strategy for a school to use. I am so glad the OP now realises this.

uhtred no hope at all I'm afraid .

This just makes me realize that boys' hair is really unremarkable these days, thinking about those I see from 13 to 21! Except those modern new fuseys, which I don't know how to pronounce. And that I can't for the life of me think what shoes they all wear other than trainers.

DS's hair is just a curly sticky outy mop. If it was long enough it would look like Jon Snow's hair. It's also incredibly thick. We normally just clipper it all off every 4 months or so but unfortunately he has work experience starting Monday and we've left it too late for that (because he looks like a shorn sheep right after it's been done) and too late to get it done properly. So he will turn up with hair tickling his collar. Sigh. Yep, no hope whatsoever.

I'm suffering class angst now. Both DC in private school but they don't have floppy hair. DS1 has slightly bigger feet than me so we steal each other's Crocs. DH came over here as a penniless immigrant from North Africa but can turn a clean car into a pit in no time. My DH and DC are sometimes seen in public in a djellaba.
P.S Sharpies are your friend when you realise you can't be arsed to sew in labels.

Like this thread . I can see the development of the BR scoring system for higher ed to identify the non-deserving MCs. Sounds as though it would also require a special subset for the MN posters who just won't conform.

Soooo being middle class means you've been given an easier hand by default Yes it does. Care to explain why you think it doesn't?
and being on pp means you're uneducated and your kids have had a life of struggle. No. But many people on pp do have significantly more difficult lives than more privileged people. Care to explain why you think they don't?

Floppy hair, disgusting Vans, for-ed, ON-velope, FILTHY (and dented) car, 5 degrees .....BINGO!

And I'd send him - these trips need a mixture of types to make sure that a good range of questions are asked and opinions aired.

And has anyone else notice that an advertisement for Crocs has just popped up on the right of the screen?

Kingscote

You forgot hummus. And odd socks.
He's going- Apart from anything else, I hadn't thought about the impact of peer to peer "dissemination".

I think I win the car thing: I took car to dodgy car wash place and when I picked it up the head man was summoned out from the back. "This very dirty car. This car disgusting, " he spat. "You pay five pound more, understand?" I understood pronto. In fact "five pound more" was a flippin' bargain considering the state of my car.

Anyway, I don't know how schools can judge on whether pupils are deserving of "widening participation" opportunities once they have looked at the FSM and PP children. I have totally posh relations without an O Level between them. Their dcs are quite privileged enough but would flag up on a form detailing parental education. Or if dh and I were paraded in front of the selection panel we might set off an alert as being well off (well spoken, suitably scruffy (!) etc, but I'm sure 3/4 of the parents at the dcs's school have more money than us.

This may be mean, but this insistence of Bertrand's that her DS is better than all on his peers is surely going to end in tears for the boy? The comment about 'peer to peer ''dissemination''' grates - such enormous largesse. My view would be that an entrenched belief in your own superiority is a huge burden, both social and educational. I'm not convinced it does favours.

all of, not all on

To be fair to OP, she has said that she doesn't believer her son is better, she believes he's different to the pupils who she believes this trip is for.

And it was other posters who have come up with the disemination.

"This may be mean, but this insistence of Bertrand's that her DS is better than all on his peers is surely going to end in tears for the boy? The comment about 'peer to peer ''dissemination''' grates - such enormous largesse"

If I was insisting that he was better than all his peers then it would certainly end in tears- for him and, I hope, for me. Fortunately I'm not. And,incidentally, if you can find a single thing that I have said that suggests I do, I'll give a tenner to your favourite charity. And I agree that peer to peer disemination is a seriously wankery phrase. But I couldn't think of a better shorthand to describe the process that many experts on this thread explained to me was an effective way of widening access. If you reD some earlier posts you will see that I was sceptical about the idea and considered it patronising in the extreme. But said experts have made me see how it could be a thing that works. So don't blame me for that!

Which 'experts'?

Doesn't 'peer-to-peer dissemination' imply a two-way dynamic, anyway?

"
Which 'experts'?"

Well, you, for one. And other people who were so definite about it that I could only assume they knew far more about it than I did.

Well I didn't mention it.

I'm not keen on disadvantaged kids being bundled together, but that's not because I think the naice middle class kids can improve their experience by disemination or what have you.

No I guess I might have made a bit of a leap and assumed you meant better when you do actually mean different. But I'm not sure it was a massive leap, because you do seem to feel he shouldn't be in a secondary modern and that middle class trumps working class. It's a difficult one, to try to keep someone in his position confident without breeding an air of misplaced superiority. I'm not sure how one does it.

Bugger, didn't you? I was sure you had, and if you said it it wouldn't be made up. But loads of people said it, so By Order of Mumsnet, it must be true. Still seems a bit odd to me-but hey ho.

"because you do seem to feel he shouldn't be in a secondary modern and that middle class trumps working class"

I do feel he shouldn't be in a secondary modern. Nobody should be. He should be in a comprehensive school.

And I don't think middle class trumps working class. But if we're talking about access to education, advantage -for want of a better word- trumps disadvantage every time. Sometime- well, probably usually- advantage/disadvantage goes along class lines.

OP, I know you have to some extent, but it's worth taking on board the comments made on this thread about your ds and his advantages being diluted by his being in a secondary modern school, and to accept the efforts school are making here.

I mean, my ds has the advantages of educated parents, a mc upbringing of museums, theatre, books, music and a filthy car AND he goes to a fee-paying school.

BUT he also has Aspergers Syndrome, a certain level of inflexible thinking that comes with that, and a weak working memory. Am I going to turn down the allowances that school and the exam board will allow him to reach his full potential because he is already privileged? No, of course not.

(Do I care about other children who have the same problems and not the same advantages? Yes, and that's for another thread.)