Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

[BertrandRussell]

Ds is at a secondary modern school. 7% high ability, of which he is one. Letter home today inviting him in a visit to our local (excellent) university because he has been "identified as talented in one or more subjects"

Fantastic thar the school is arranging visits- it has only just started to send any kids to university at all. The school's catchment means that there are very few parents with more than a basic education, and they are pushing hArd to raise the aspirations of the kids- which is fantastic.

Dp and I have 4 degrees between us. Dd is at a Russell group university. Ds will definitely, if he wants to, go to university. It iseems ridiculous of the school to waste a space on this trip on ds. Should I say something? He's not particularly bothered- except that it means a day off school. If he doesn't go, they could give the space to someone that it might actually make a difference to. Surely they should have thought of this? What do I do? And is it depressing that even in a secondary modern school, privilege attracts privilege?

Brenda
Yup, funnily enough my kids have not visited that one either .... I had tenants from there .... slack jawed is the politest thing to say about them

Please could you explain to me how I am doing that?

You are willing to second guess the school choosing to send your child on a trip. How would "saying something" work? You explain to them how they are wrong and misguided and set them straight by giving them a little lecture about privilege?

I don't think you need to say anything directly to your son. He will pick up on your attitude.

Summerends - so you did , sorry .

Yes, I think a child would pick up on the OPs attitude too, with or without very much being said.
He will know that his mother considers them to be different to the other families at the school and that the difference will make a difference to his later outcomes. It will be hard for him to not feel just a little bit superior to the others at the school. And children know when parents are a bit critical of the school, even if they are governors - and it helps them to feel more critical then too.
He is there at that school and in that sense the same as everyone else, although I don't suppose the OP is keen to hear that. Yes, on a macro scale, mothers education, parental income etc are the big determinants of success at school, but on a micro level, there are many outcomes and school makes a big difference. The OP knows her son and how influenced he is likely to be by the attitude of other students in the sec mod - he may well be a free spirit who is extremely determined and hard working and who has great aspirations for himself and will be a self starter, who goes beyond what might be predicted. Perhaps he is already seeking out his own university visits and wider reading....these things are all possible. However the majority of children in sec mods won't be doing those things, so every opportunity to give him opportunities should be taken. Perhaps the most disadvantaged by sec moderns are actually the bright who are there, who in other environments could have done loads better - perhaps it is them, rather than those who are materially disadvantaged or disadvantaged by parental education - redressing the balance and providing opportunity needs to be in every parents mind who knows their child isn't receiving the stellar opportunities that some kids are getting.

"he will know that his mother considers them to be different to the other families at the school and that the difference will make a difference to his later outcomes."
He would have to be pretty thick not to have spotted that for himself- he's got floppy hair and has been seen in public in Crocs. And our car is very dirty. Proper middle class we are. And you know something? I actually think it's important that children realize it if they've been given an easier hand of cards than some others- it stops them thinking there's anything special about them -it's just the luck of the draw. "Check your privilege". An annoying saying, but aposite.

It's weird this evening a friend called who I haven't spoken to for a while. Guess what she's upset that her high achieving SS West London comp has invited her DD to attend a similar thing. She educated and MC and ambitious for her daughter but she receives FSM, the school PP, she is upset that the school feels they need to encourage her DD to think about university, the obvious implication being that my friend is a rubbish parent and wasn't going to encourage her DD herself. She doesn't think her DD should have been choosen just because she's on FSM/PP.
I don't have much time for state school teachers in general but I'm beginning to feel sorry for them, one would have thought organising a trip for a small group of pupils to attend an open day at your local Uni would not have been such a fraught activity with over sensitive parents taking umbridge because their DC are invited!

They have selected on potential . It will be an interesting day for him. Accept and think no more of it!

Sooooo being middle class means you've been given an easier hand by default and being on pp means you're uneducated and your kids have had a life of struggle.

Nice to see the class system going still going strong. Talk about putting people in boxes which will surely be more life limiting the anything else.

Hate to break it to you but anyone of us could be on pp tomorrow,anybody on pp could be part of a family going through temporary hard times but surging high very soon.I have friends in both camps. Thankfully my kids are oblivious.Maybe it's because they don't have floppy hair and just aren't m/c enough.

None of my kids have floppy hair. :(

Perhaps he should wear the Crocs to the university open day, and those along with his floppy hair will make people realise that he isn't really one of 'those' for whom the day is tailored.

My DS attends a top public school. I haven't seen any floppy hair since 2010!

But that aside, the OP says her son is different because of his class.
Fair enough. But I still don't think that trumps his secondary mod education and as such he is the right candidate for outreach.

I didn't know the MC favoured crocs any more, none of my MC friends seem too, I thought it was converse, deck shoes and Churches. I'm worried now should I go out and buy some for my "floppy haired" DS?

I'm really confused. We are in kent and I have a degree and a lot of professional qualifications. Ds won't be taking the 11 plus and has collar length hair. If offered a trip to uni I would want him to go. Where am I going wrong?

No happy you should not. They are the sartorial choice of toddlers and those trying very hard to be Boden!

Male teens should be wearing pump type affairs ( Top Man, H&M) as scruffy as possible.

A pair of Vans, Converse, Superga are also acceptable but, annoyingly, parents moan about these getting knackered due to cost ( unlike above mentioned pumps).

It's fine for him to go as long as he wearing crocs and when you drop him off you're dirty a dirty car then they'll know he doesn't really need to go. Having said this do check you're not depriving less fortunate children of a place before confirming you'd like him to go.

word I hate Vans and those other things Toms (I just think they look so dreadful) almost as much as I despise Boden.
DS converse are three years old (admittedly hanging off his feet) they seem good value for money to me.

Damn, I just had both my cars cleaned But I did just put a dent in the newer one so that probably makes it OK

DH gets his cleaned every Friday.
I wait until he gets really pissed off about mine ( and takes it in despair).

I agree with Word Factory at 8.56

Also, (and Word you know so much more about these kind of programmes ) but one thought.
OP's son, if and when he is applying to Unversity is not just competing for places against his school peers. There will be floppy haired croc wearers with highly educated parents who have also been to a school where university application is the norm. I am guessing therefore they see him having an element of disadvantage (the school). Also Happy's friend's dd is I am sure an anomaly in a different way - I am guessing her peers at a SS are almost all intending to apply to university but statistically they think she is at a disadvantage because of the FSM and PP. She may very well personally not be.

I would have thought these programmes, whilst not exactly a sledgehammer, can't be finely tuned instruments. I guess they have to look at the factors they know about which seem to hold back able children and address them. It can't surely be possible (or desirable ) for them to make personal judgments about the child's family. So there will be some anomalies.

Now, that doesn't stop OP making her own decision that her son doesn't need this trip and someone else would benefit more. She says she will send him, and I personally think that is the right thing to do. Quite separately , especially as she is a governor, she could bring up widening this programme if 1 minibus full is not encompassing all the children who would benefit. Giving up one space, whilst laudable, isn't fixing the problem properly if they have a lot more children who would benefit. If they have chosen only the children they think will benefit then it is a bit of a useless gesture (unless the boy doesn't want to go) .

I know only what I've read on here so prepared to be told I'm wrong.

Noeuf How can we count the ways?

Key word there is 'both' TP .

This thread is marvellous.

Thank you incidentally to all those who took the time to validate my Biro habit. MN at its best :)

Oh dear. I was a bit serious just above against the prevailing mood. My parent's gardener backed into our car and dented the bumper. Can I be in the gang?

Ours get cleaned when they are so filthy from motorway muck (DH can easily do 1000 miles in a busy week) that I do not want to touch the boot handle!

DS wears vans and has slightly floppy hair but is at a comp .... however it is a leafy one

molio
and they are both of a type that the insurance lady burst out laughing when I asked about adding 17 year old DD to the policy

I use sew on nametags - but only because Mother dear bought them for me when each of the kids were born

Now i don't know after reading the rest

My car is very clean
No dents
So I should send ds

But I have a degree
So he shouldn't go

But DH has nothing bar cycling proficiency
But he has a company Audi

My car used to be so filthy when I was up to my eyeballs in horses friends brought towels to cover the seats. I once had to ferry a German chief exec of a big drugs company to a station it in (no taxis) her look of horror remains in printed on memory for ever.
Our mega posh friend was even worse for two days he carted around a dead sheep on the front seat of his clapped out land rover he'd attempted to hold it in place with the seat belt as it kept tipping over when he went round bends but when stationary it kept falling half onto the floor he got stopped by the police because his tax disk had fallen off and the police had to help him lift the sheep to try find it the slightly green looking young policeman finally gave up simply saying "please try and find it soon sir".
But now I'm a slightly reformed character I now muck out the car once a month rather than once a year before our annual holiday. Does this mean I'm no longer MC [worried smiley]?