So have your private school fees been worth it?

[jeanne16]

Just that exactly? Both my DCs have been through private London schools all the way through from Reception to 6th Form and although they have both done very well ( eldest now at Cambridge, younger about to go to very good RG), I can't help wondering if it has been worth the money.

I am currently wondering if we could have done things differently. We have spent an enormous amount of money on school fees that could perhaps have gone on other things. Could we have tried harder to get them into decent state schools, particularly at primary level?

Your thoughts?

I love my daughter to bits....all I can say is that private schools only offer choice if you can afford it. Private schools aren't worth diddly shit and your wasting your money if the school isn't right for your child. However, if you have picked the right private school for your child then they will have the experience of their lives and thrive.

State schooling is more of a lottery. If your lucky you get into a good comp or religious school. If not then you have saved money but at what cost?

Simply put private education gives you nothing apart from choice. The wronhgchoice can also be dire for your child.

Private education for my DD os worth it.

I believe in free education for children. I just don't believe in secondary moderns or all inclusive comprehensives for teaching pretty wide mixed ability in one class.

Petts my Reception aged twins are in a class of 11. They do French and Spanish. They are 2 years ahead in reading and maths. They are in a good state primary.

Whether Private is worth it depends on your local state school ( and the private school you have in mind)

Off topic a bit, but I agree with WordFactory that a lot of people are caught in a vicious circle of 'wouldn't want to be confident like public school boys are confident' which leaves the public school boys to take all the plum jobs where such confidence is desirable. I want to see people from all walks of life develop that sort of confidence.

DH and I are old school socialists but send our DC to private secondary and I make no apology for it, though half my family no longer speak to us. We chose the school because it offers one of the best educations in Britain, and doesn't foster social elitism. Its focus is solely on academic brilliance and enabling the widest possible choices for its pupils after they leave. Interestingly, they offer elocution lessons free of charge to all boys whose accents they think would hold them back from being offered top rank jobs.

I'd be ashamed to work somewhere where they cared about your accent. It's pathetically pretentious and elitist. (It probably ends up being racist too)

It's disgusting that attitudes like this are perpetuated.

Hopefully the schools offering elocution lessons are doing it it for the right reasons.

I wonder what silveracorn think IS socially elitist?

CookieDoughKid - 65% A*-Cs including maths and English is considerably better than the national average, which I think is somewhere in the 50s. Have you looked into how the higher ability, middle ability and lower ability groups fare within that headline figure? When does the school start setting and for which subjects? And apart from your one anecdote about a child with special needs, does the school in general have a poor reputation for behaviour management and pastoral care? Have you basically been put off by friends who already have children there and memories of your own experiences? Interested to know why you think it's so bad.

Pippy yes I have been thinking about it because basically dc1 isn't thriving in the current setting. Yes he is doing well but not as well as he can.
It's going back to what cookie was saying about expecting to do average and that's enough and expecting excellence.
Now I have gone through was IS a real elitist system and I'm actually not sure this is the right way to do things. But all the stuff about 'working at the level of the child' etc in primary level was just non existent.
dc1 is predicted a level 6 in his SATS wo ANY effort on his part. Even the things he hasn't done yet, they had to explain to him once and he was gone. All the other children were still left behind puzzled. So how is that working then.... (And that's in a situation where I actaully have retain information and refused to teach him stuff at home)
Same in reading (when you see only 0.5% of children get it and it's equivalent to a C in GCSE, or so has he been told by his teacher...), of course he is bored and not stretched.
But the resources just aren't there to support him.
He is craving to be surrounded by children he can talked to, who are at the same level than him and not disruptive. He is dreaming that this dream will become true when he is in Y7.
I fear this will just not happen.

TheMagnificent my view is that children need to be educated alongside same ability peers. Education should be a collegiate experience.

This is problematic for those with the highest abilities as there are just not that many of them.

The only way to get a critical mass is to have selection.

Super selective grammars are not widely avaialble in the state sector. There are more in the private sector.

I send my DS to Westminster which is very selective and it has worked well. He has been appropriately challenged and yet is pretty routine among his peers.

My DD intends to join him in September. She has thrived very well in her non selective private school, but she less of an outlier than her bro.

I actually agree with that with the proviso that there are still some ways for children of the lower abilities to 'go up' because suddenly at 14yo they realise they need and want to listen and pull their weight (happened to a cousin of mine).
I was in a system that 'streamed' children right from the start. It worked.

rabbitstew fair question!

We looked at a lot of private schools. The majority either openly or somehow subtly conveyed a message that your children would be elite if they joined that school - they wouldn't be mixing with what those schools implied were the wrong sort, they would be making the right social connections. One even told us that if our DC were bad at exams, no problem as they had an 'in' with a few City firms for nice chaps who weren't too bright. We weren't at all interested in those values being instilled into our DC.

By contrast DC's school is passionately academic, geekily so, and attracts geeky boys who are obsessed with learning. There seems to be no interest in or focus on class or social standing at all. It just doesn't give off that vibe. They don't come out the other end with that public school glossy air of entitlement either. They are keen, earnest, sweet. That's quite rare. I suppose they are more like super selective state grammar school boys, only we pay!

So, you could say that you are intellectually elitist, then, silveracorn?

Interestingly, as reported in The Times, Patrick Derham, head of Westminster School, has claimed that he could not tell the difference between his own pupils and those at the new selective Harris Westminster Sixth Form, which does not charge fees:
www.harrisfederation.org.uk/47/latest-news/article/185/could-harris-westminster-be-the-most-elitist-school-in-the-country#.VU5CSPq9Kc2

Honestly, yes I think it is a waste of money - but state schools are good where I live so pretty easy for me to say. They've got year 8 students taking mock GCSE's and getting B's.

I'm with the poster who thinks the money would be better served buying them a house. House prices our kids are facing are not fair! Or educating them with a professional certification, (accountancy, dentistry, actuarial) that will actually help them earn money with a secure income and make them less susseptible to redundancy and competition from foreign labor.

granola I'm as puzzled as the writer of that article by that comment, having spent a fair bit of time at both schools.

I can only assume that he was trying to be positive .

Don't get me wrong HW is a great sixth form college, led by extraordinary staff.

Unfortunately accents and having the right one is important. People may not like it but it is a horrible truth. We have found that a Surrey accent is more acceptable than say a Lancashire accent. In terms of communication a person with a Surrey accent will be understood. Whereas one with a Lancashire accent would need to tone it down. I blame it on the BBC world news myself. People overseas just don't get exposure to our more regional accents. They also weirdly enough do not like a local accen. Which is perfectly understood by all.

Kenlee Where on earth do you work? Would they really choose one candidate over another due to their accent? What about people from overseas are they unwelcome too? It sounds like a very backward company.

I understand that some accents 'can' be hard to follow and that communication but it would be outrageous to discriminate against because of their accents.
My DHs large city company has a few plummy accents around but as they only want the very best calibre employees they recruit on a world wide basis. Accents and old boy schooling and similar crap are not considered. My DH is proof of that.

rabbitstew Good questions. I know this school I've mentioned gets a handful of students with straight As. And I'm purely looking at exam results.
Both are all girls schools.

GCSE stats in 2014 for my local comp:
8% got 8 grades or more straight As with a sprinkling of A*s.
34% failed to get a pass mark above C in English and Maths.

It's interesting to note that our local indie got a much larger % of straight A grades. Not just A but A across board. Here's the impressive biggie: 54% of its students got 9 or more straight A* grades. Yes, it's selective but it's not an ultra selective indie. I'm not in London btw.

I've not dismissed my local comp school, I think it's newish acting head is turning things around. I actually think the top set do alright in addition with a huge middle of its students - 58% students getting 'average' 5 GCSE marks A to C grades.

My question is why are these 34% failing in Maths and English? Is it due to the school or were these 34% doomed from the start and that the 5 years of secondary schooling wasn't as effective as it could have been? And this is not a small school, this is a very large secondary modern so this 34% is a significant number IMO.

If we drill down to A level results between both schools, the exam results become far more extreme and the pole is much much wider in terms of their leaver destinations and grades achieved.

It is probably comparing apples and pears between the two schools. But actually, if you look at my DC. My DC is very bright, currently top set in my state primary, she's about 2 years head,especially in Maths.

And here's the question which is very individual to every family. Do I think that private education is worth paying for?

Cookie sounds like we are in a very similar position with our dc.
I've dceuded to send dc1 to our local state school and then see what is going to happen, if he settles, if he finds some challenges or not (they stream right fom the start in maths and English, then in French in Y8 and science in Y9 I think). If he is still cruising throiugh and betting bored and losing his interest in learning, then I'll look at the private schools around here (2 of them are very close by and then there are another 2 a bit further away).
I have also planned that to look at something else for 6 form, including some in a different town altogether. I'm worried that the leat 2 years isn't enough but... whatelse can I do?

Similar position with our dc, too - both extremely able, outliers in their primary schools. Hoping that there will be a reasonable sized cohort of very able children at their secondary (I would rather they were not outliers throughout school), which is quite large, as this is a fully comprehensive area - no selective schools. I like the local secondary, though: it seems to have an excellent, newish (3 years at the end of this year) headteacher who has managed to gain the respect and trust of staff, students and parents and markedly improved results without harming the school's reputation for excellent pastoral care and behaviour management. Staff genuinely seem to enjoy teaching there and are very loyal to their leadership, so he has clearly managed the improvements in the right way, by bringing staff fully on board, which is the only possible way of effecting lasting change. I am hoping, therefore, that academic standards will continue to rise and that my dcs will meet plenty of like-minded peers. In terms of personal experience, I went to a grammar school and my dh to a selective private boarding school, so neither of us went to comprehensives, and whilst we KNOW what we didn't like about our own educations (and what we did like), we don't yet know what we won't like about the comprehensive school our ds1 will be starting at in September, as to us it's not only a new school, but a new system!

Alphabet 1-4. I work for quite a large company in HK. We also have many people from all over the world. Communication is very important. Although not surprisingly we find that if a candidate is very similar. They still tend to hire the southern accents more. My DH coming from the North. Will always tone down his accent. It is sad but a true fact of life. I'm sure it will change but I won't risk that with my DD's future.

magnificent ah I see, your in a similar situation as us, your DC is very clever, it would be a shame if local state is not able to keep him engaged with his appetite to learn, a good private would most likely give him the support he needs. My dd was deemed clever according to CAT score in yr 7 of 138 apparently this is really good as means she has the ability to do well at GCSE, but some people have told us to take it with a pinch of salt as kids can under or over achieve with whatever scores they get.
DD is very aspirated and thinks current school doesnt really push the kids to aim higher. Career and university advice is poor. It is literally DIY career service. Would be great if they had professional workers eg doctors, solicitor, engineers etc to give talks on what their job involves at least gives them a idea or something for them to aim towards. Whereas I think private schools really steer the kids towards a professional career arming them with the right frame of mind to succeed, be mentily strong, not to give up and aim high. I can't put my finger on it but that special something that stands them apart. Probably reiterating what cookie says earlier about confidence thing. We gave state school a good try but I really think we just unlucky to have only poor states to choose from. Looks like we will be going to go private, we found a really good all girls school that dd is really excited to go to. We just wish we didn't have to pay to get the service that really, every child who wants to learn or are academic should have access to, for free. There must be so many kids that have lost out to good careers because the state educarion system has let them down.

Pippy could you get a bursary for your dd ? I know we wouldn't be able to do it wo it (which is one of the reason I'm reluctant to look. Finding a school that would be much better and then knowing dc couldn't go to it would be hard to say the least).

The great irony is that independent schools do steer pupils towards the professsions but those professions no longer pay salaries adequate to cover school fees, not in London anyway. Better to head into trade, eg a bank, if you want your children to go to private school.

magnificent unfortunately we don't qualify for bursary as can only apply in yr7 & yr12 and with household income of under 31k. Wish we had applied for bursary in year 7 but we can't risk delaying till yr 12 as she will have already done gcse and the school has a policy of atleast 6A's to get in plus a assessment. granolmuncher what are the average fees in London? In a way, glad we don't live down there and having to go to a failing comp, we would have no choice if the private fees are very high, that would mean only the very highly paid doctors and banker etc parents could access a good education for their DC.